#11: Brian Lindner: The Hidden Stories Behind Stowe's Iconic Ski Trails

Dive into the rich history of Stowe, Vermont, as we uncover the fascinating stories behind the names of its iconic ski trails. From legendary race horses and fearless mountaineers to colorful local characters, each trail tells a story of adventure and a deep connection to the mountains.

But that's not all—this podcast also explores the history of ski culture in Stowe, from its humble beginnings to becoming a world-class destination. Hear tales of the first apres-ski bar and Harlow Hill.

Whether you're searching for powder in Tres Amigos or cruising down Perry Merrill, you’ll never look at Stowe's trails the same way again. 🌲❄️

Transcript

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Welcome listeners to the Octagon. The Octagon is a podcast where we explore the stories, people, and places that make Stowe Vermont so legendary. I'm your host, Ted Thorndike. I'm joined by my cohost, Mike Carey. And today we're bringing back Brian Lindner. Local historian for a second episode with us. Ski season is getting into full gear, and we all can name many of the trails on the mountain, yet behind every trail name lies a piece of history, a nod to local legends, or a glimpse into the rugged character of Mount Mansfield. In this episode, we are going to dive deep into the origins of iconic trails like Nosedive and Goat, but Who named them, why, and what they say about Stowe's unique ski culture. Also, hear about other mountain history and lore. So let's begin the tour. Welcome back, Brian. Hey, it's great to be here. Thanks for coming back. I understand you're just coming off the hill from a patrolling shift. I came down directly from the mountain tonight. Yes, absolutely. Awesome. it's nice to have a little fresh snow out there today. It was great skiing today. I thought. Yeah. Agreed. I was up there early. So yeah, we'll just dive right in. we'd like to explore, some of the more, iconic historical trail names. We touched on it in our first episode with you. Could you, go through the Bruce trail history on that? Yeah. The Bruce trail is the first purpose cut ski trail in Vermont. It was cut by the Civilian Conservation Corps, CCC. the crew that cut it was, Camp S 53, which was the Camel's Hump Camp, which was actually where the swimming pool, the municipal swimming pool in Waterbury is today. They were the ones that cut the Bruce and they started on November 1st, 1933, and they finished it on February 1st, 1934. So they spent the entire winter up there cutting it. And the leader of that crew was, Charlie Lord, who was so integral to Vermont and Stowe's skiing history. And it's not clear who named the trail. And you probably could not name a ski trail after a logger today, that would not be acceptable. But it was Horace Bruce had extensively logged that portion of the mountain. And it was probably Charlie Lord that picked the name, the Bruce, and it's named after Horace Bruce from Waterbury, who in his time was an amazing logger and employed. I don't know how many people in this area. he was one of the largest employers around. that's who you want to honor is who's keeping you employed. So that's how the trail got named after him. let's Keep the history theme going. after the Bruce trail got cut What was the next trail that was cut and story behind that? Charlie Lord had laid out the Bruce And he then as soon as the Bruce was done the next year started looking at the nosedive Or what became the nosedive and started laying that out with a guy named Ab Coleman He's not talked about much or written about much in Still Mountains history, but he was right there. he was a great map maker and he and Charlie laid out what they thought the nosedive should look like. and they started cutting in 35 and they Depending on which article you read, they probably finished it in 36. And originally it was not the nosedive. It started out as the Barnes camp trail because it ended at Barnes camp, the center of skiing at Mount Mansfield. And only later did they decide, let's look at that. It starts at the nose and it starts pretty steep. Let's call it the Nosedive. And that's how the name came about. And so today when we look up, when we go to Nosedive today, we look up and we see what used to be the old Nosedive trail. Is that the top up there that we can see? no, that's an interesting story. you mean above the lifts above? Yeah, Yeah. That's upper nosedive. And that was cut. I believe it was for the 1966, races, big championship races, not international races. And we did not have a trail that met FIS length requirements. So that's how they did it. They cut from the top of the single chair up towards the TV towers to get that additional length to meet FIS requirements. Oh, okay. In fact, in the summertime, if you hike up through that, there are still the remains of the race shack up there in the woods. That's right in the middle of the trail. Very cool. Yeah. I guess not to get too granular, but I'm, nose dive, it's a dive down from nose. And that's a reference to, when you look at the famous Mansfield skyline, you got the forehead and the nose and the chin of the Adam's apple. how did that all come into play where they decided, Hey, we're going to, name the Mansfield ridgeline after these, that's outside my area of expertise, but I grew up. Always understanding that it's supposed to be the face of a Native American looking up. That's what I heard too. And someone just decided, there's the forehead, there's the chin, but I don't know the real details behind it. That's what I grew up with. And that's the reference to nosedive. Correct. that's how the whole trail started. Very cool. so we've got these historical figures. We've got, Lorde and Perry Merrill, the early founders. Who gets to decide to name trails does the ski patrol get to decide this? I think that's changed over the years depending on who's around, who gets to pick them, but there's a great story on how Trails got named after those two gentlemen, as an example, when they were cutting the Lord trail or what became the Lord trail, it was Perry Merrill, the state forester that said when this is done, we need to honor Charlie. So this is going to be the Lord trail and Charlie didn't like it. He thought, no, we should name this something else, something much more skee y, but Perry Merrill held the paychecks and it became the Lord trail. So then when they cut under Charlie's direction, the next trail after nosedive, Charlie Lord is leading the crew and he said, this is going to be the Perry Merrill trail. And Perry Merrill didn't get to object to it. So that's how, trails got their names. That's amazing. So we talked about CB star a little bit and there's the famous star trail. What's the story behind that? Did he like ski and steeps how did that come to be the, the Star Trail was cut in 1960 when the double chairlift went in. and it was called the International because we had the National. Now this is steeper, more challenging. This is the International Trail. That used to be the name. That was the official name to begin with. And then later on, I'm not entirely clear, but it was around the time that CV Star passed away, that the resort. I named the Trail after Star and a lot of people thought that meant because it's so steep, if you can ski at you're some kind of star. But it's Star with two Rs. Yep. After CV Star, so Wow. I did not know it was called the International. Yep. Yeah. That is so cool. Amazing. So we had national. And then the International. That's correct. And National, what's the, is there a significance there? It's not clear exactly how that name came about. My theory is, in those early days they needed something to sound like a big ski resort to make it sound bigger and more impressive than it might have been at that point. Yep. So I was taking a quick peek at the trail map. It seems like the names are changing even today. The Mary Mason Glades. I just saw that on the trail map. Yeah. what's the story behind that? the, the resort was looking, initially, when they put in the new six pack that perhaps as one option, we should name that lift after a female because we have so few things up there that relate to half of the people that's getting stuff. and then the, That didn't happen, obviously it became the Sunrise Six Pack, but at least it was in the conversation. So then we started looking, maybe we should name a trail after a female. And Mary Scott Mason was from Waterbury. She had a very low number in the National Ski Patrol. She was ski patrolling here in the 1930s. Now, not driving toboggans, but responding for first aid and it just seemed if we're going to have a new trail, Mary Scott Mason would be an obvious person. We have great photos of her in the octagon in the forties, all dressed up in complete ski attire with a skirt on. they trimmed out some of the trees on Lower National between National and Liftline. they trimmed out some of the trees in there to turn it into some glades and that became the Mary Mason Glades. That's how that came about. Need to go ski that this weekend. Definitely. are there any trails named after ski instructors? There's one. There's one at Stowe, and it's completely appropriate, it's Sepp's Run, named after Sepp Rusch. in a way, it's a very small trail, very short. it's more of a connector than anything. You would think it'd be one of the greatest trails at Stowe because Sepp is so integral to our success. but that is the one trail named after an instructor at Stowe. How many are named after ski patrollers? There's several after patrollers. and, the list, is Hackett's Highway, The Lord Loop, Shifter's Shot, Phil Zuggi, Duck Walk, Ryan's Folly, and now Mary Mason. And have you patrolled with all of those gentlemen? Several of them, yes. I definitely have. I learned to trade from some of these guys. Yeah. And I knew some of the others. Yep. And what about, I don't know if anyone ever skis this, Phil's Zuggy. You come down lift line and just off to the right there, there's a trail Phil's Zuggy. Most people have no idea that it exists and never ski it. And it's a really fun trail. It's a nice steep chute. What's the story there? That's named after Phil Tomlinson, the longtime director of the Mount Mansfield Ski Patrol. it's a little known trail. It's very challenging. There's a big water bar at the bottom. So it requires a lot of snow in there. but when you're looking for the last powder inside the resort, that's one place you can go look for it. Only our listeners will know that. Yes. So move into the other side of the mountain. chin clip, we all know that name. We've all skied it many times, but how did that name come to be? Chin clip is because of the original chin clip, which no longer exists. It's completely reforested. there's no hint of it left anymore. It left from the area of Taft's Lodge and came down into smugglers notch and ended where the state picnic area is. And so was that kind of near the long trail? Yes. Very close to the long trail. Yes. And it was called Chin Clip because when you were Further away from the mountain, and you were looking at it, when they had cut that trail, it had the appearance of a scar on the chin. Amazing. So they thought, it looks like a boxer's scar on his chin, so that's Chin Clip. That's how the name came about. But that is not the Chin Clip we ski today. So if you were hiking around the woods, could you still see faint signs of the old Chin Clip, or just fully grown in? As a child in the 50s, I could look up the original chin clip from Route 108, where the state picnic area is, and you could see it was much denser, thicker, undergrowth. But today, that's complete, it's just, it's so reforested, there's no hint. Yeah. No hint. And, what about the glades? I'm thinking about different glades trails. Some of them seem new, that they're on the trail map. one specifically is Trace Amigos. What's the story there? Yes, Trey Zimmy goes, I can't remember It's not the movie with Steve Martin Short, and Chevy Chase. Tres Amigos was, three buddies, I can't off the top of my head recollect their names, but they went in and did some illegal trimming, which a lot of people used to do and, we're trying to create their own little heaven in the woods up there and did a really good job of it. mostly they were taking out. windfall and dead stuff. they were doing a good, appropriate job. and at some point, I forget the exact year, the mountain company looked at it and said, Boy, we got more and more people in there skiing it. That should become an official trail. And that's how we got named after three amigos that actually cut it. One I forgot to ask about. Goat. Goat. Oh, I've always wanted to know this. a billy goat? Goat. there were two goat trails and the first goat trail basically, started where the hay shoot is today and cut across upper lift line, went into the woods past where goat is today into the woods and popped out at the bottom of the turns in the nosedive. That was the original goat. obviously from the goat over to nosedive doesn't exist anymore. That's completely regrown. In 1960, when they built the double chair and they cut the international slash star trail, they also cut the goat as we know it today, but it wasn't called the goat initially it was called the shammy and only later was it changed. I think when they decided the shammy and how did they come up with the shammy? We have no idea. Got it. We have no idea. But I think someone at some point said shammy, that doesn't sound. Like it fits the goat trail. It needs to be named a goat. Yeah. So that's how the name got switched. I got to think the top of goat is one of the gnarliest trails we have. I don't know if that's a ski patrol or if you ever hear someone's like out on upper goat, he like, Oh geez, I got to go down that trail. I have never driven a toboggan down upper goat. I don't want to ever try. Yeah, you've made it this far. Yeah. And, so the other one that's always, been curious about is Hayride. Hayride. I have absolutely no idea how they came up with that name. I can't find it referenced anywhere. I'm sure there's a story there. but the Hayride that you ski today is nowhere near what the Hayride was when it was cut in 1960. That was. much narrower trail. Yes. Much narrowly when they widened it, they've widened it three to three different times. Yeah. exactly how that name came about. I can't tell. Wow. And did they initially widen it? for races. Was Peter Rush involved in the final widening? Yes, Peter was very involved. That's what I thought, because that was going to become our premier race trail. Yeah, yes. I remember, doing some racing a little training when I was a kid and at the time UVM was racing there too. So that was a pretty cool experience. But in my opinion, halfway down Hayride, that view, out over into Spruce is my favorite view on the mountain, Absolutely. There's a lot of mornings when I'm up there really early, I'll stop right at the top of Hayride and take pictures. It's just an awesome trail. Yep. Yep, absolutely. we haven't touched on Spruce much. Maybe let's move over to Spruce and talk about some of the trail names over there. one of my favorite trails, Whirl A Way. Whirl A Way. Everybody wonders, where did that name come from? Sounds like a circus ride. Whirl A Way! It's Whee! I don't know who actually picked the name, but Whirl A Way is our one trail at Stowe that's named after an animal. Whirl A Way was a very famous triple crown winner in horse racing. and very famous in the 1940s. Everybody knew who Whirl A Way was, and of course they cut that trail in 54, and Whirl A Way had died the previous year. And there's much more of a story that I haven't fully researched, but he's buried, Whirl A Way is buried on the Normandy beaches, the D Day beaches. Wow. And there's got to be a full story there, but I don't know what it is. When I was growing up, and to this day, I hear a lot of people reference Big Spruce as Big Pig. Yes. is that named after an animal too? A local pig that roams Big Spruce? I think it got that name because of the old clunky lift. Okay, that's what I always thought. I think that's where it came from. The old slow diesel lift. It's always cold over there at Spruce. It's always windy. Absolutely. It's a cold ride. It's always cold. And there was a time in the 50s and 60s where instead of handing out blankets on big sprues, they were coonskin coats, huge, enormous things. And where these came from, I don't know. Wow. I can remember as a kid trying to wear them and it was 10 times bigger than I was. Wow. That's cool. So not a trail name, but me and Ted were talking earlier, you're driving up to the mountain, you go past the Matterhorn and on a snowy day. All the cars are sliding off the hill known as Harlow Hill. How did Harlow Hill get his name? And did you think Harlow would be pretty upset at people swearing against him because they can't get to the hill because there's cars blocking the road? he may still be laughing at us. Actually. the original route 108 did not go up Harlow Hill from the from the Matterhorn, you came up to the Matterhorn and that was Stowe Forks and there you turn right to go up into Notchbrook. That was the main road and then eventually it took a left turn and it came out into that field that's across from, what we know up at the mountain is the warehouse. it's red building on the right. It's actually an old farmhouse. That was the Harlow farm. And the main road came through that field and then turned right again back onto what we now know as Route 108, just below the toll house. So it was named after the Harlow Farm that was there. Wow. All right. That's awesome. And you said you have a picture of that farm, don't you? I have a photograph of the farm with a horse and buggy driving by it. Yes. Oh, that's so cool. And I forget what year it was, but eventually, obviously, From the Matterhorn, they cut that hill that we know of as Harlow Hill. But I think that was in the 1940s, as I recall. Yeah. we'll step into the back country a little bit, learn some back country history and we'll start in that zone, the steeple. The steeple, that was one of the very first trails cut. it was serviced out of, ranch camp. you had to hike up it to ski down it. And I got the name steeple just because it was narrow. It was like the goat. It was just straight down and not very wide. And that's how the steeple came about. How about teardrop? Teardrop, I suspect was named by Charlie Lord because it's his crew that cut it. as far as I know, it was his crew that cut it. Now there's been a recent discovery, by, Jamie Eide, on the whole ski area that was on at the base of the teardrop. The CCC had built rope tows over there, a base lodge, they had a 20, 25 meter ski jump. that's quite an incredible story. Wow. but I'm pretty sure Charlie's crew cut the teardrop and he probably named it. So I'm thinking about other trails that we may have missed on this tour. I'm thinking about Gulch. Gulch, you would never know it today. But at one time that was a geological gulch. So you skied down it, let's say today you're standing on crossover looking up gulch. From that vantage point today it's a really broad wide open slope. Okay, when I was a kid if you were looking up that, now this is the viewers right, not the skiers right, when you're looking up from crossover on gulch, the gulch was on The viewer's right hand side, it was maybe 12 to 14 feet wide between ledges that you came through and then opened back up wide and you skied down to crossover. So it was a true geological gulch in there, which they eventually blasted completely away. There's no hint of it anymore today. Wow. How about the classic Hellbrook? Hellbrook was just simply named after the brook itself. It's not an official trail, but lots of backcountry skiers. Ski it. And if you've ever been down it, you know why it's called Hellbrook. Is that why? Just because it is so steep and rugged. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Hiking up that is down. It is worse. Yeah. If I hike up and I go down the long trail and drop a car and the other either way, gravity is not your friend. Yeah, exactly. Hellbrook is more fun to ski down, but got to have your head on a swivel for sure. Absolutely. Totally. Totally. the other one that's, I've always wondered about today, it's called Jake's run. Yes. Obviously named after Jake Carpenter from Burton, but it was previously called Lullaby Lane. Yes. With multiple different spellings. Okay. Over the years, the trail, the spelling on the trail maps changed. Sometimes it has an E at the end. Sometimes it doesn't. but Lullaby Lane was cut in 1946. for the new T bar that was installed, on Mansfield, roughly where the six pack is today. Obviously the T bar didn't go up quite as high, but they cut Lullaby Lane then to be the easiest way to get back to the base. And that's how it got that name. Now there used to be a steep section on it, that if you stop and look, you can still see evidence of that today. if you're skiing down Lullaby Lane. just above the top of the, easy mile lift. If you look to your left, you can see how the, the, Hillside has been cut back. you have to stop and look for it, but you can see that it used to have a very steep drop off at one point, which is where when I was six years old, the only time I've ever been hurt skiing, I broke my leg. And the following year they bulldozed that out. I actually have a funny Lola by Lane story. We had, friends visit us from Florida. a man and his girlfriend and they're skiing with me and my wife. And I'm like, how are you guys the skiers? And they're like, Oh, we're good skiers. We're athletic. And so we start going down, let's go down Lola by Lane. Let's see how that goes. And we start going down Lola by Lane and the woman's just falling. Down completely and she starts yelling at me like you're taking me on the hardest trail ever and I look at I go The name of this trail is Lullaby Lane. If you can't ski on Lullaby Lane, like we're not gonna have a good day together. There's a neat little feature that nobody knows about on Lullaby Lane. Oh We have the flat section where you have to walk sometimes right the very beginning of that if you look to your right downhill, there's a brook And when There's not a great deal of snow. You can see a big concrete cistern sitting in that brook. At one time, that was the water supply, gravity fed, that went all the way down by the toll house. And that, I've got to say, the head on that was pretty high, so there must have been some serious water pressure at the bottom. Yeah, so something that does get talked about is trail count. I do remember. Back in the day, they'd say, Oh, we have 48 trails open. And so today, what is the total trail count? and what are your thoughts on, there being the upper part of a trail counts as one trail. from a ski patrol standpoint, it works nicely for us because it helps us pinpoint. Yeah. Where scenes are that's a good point. and in fact, a lot of those names, when they change from 48 to initially, I think it was 112, they took names that the ski patrol was using for many of these things and saying, let's just turn it into an official location. Yeah. So from our standpoint at those patrollers, it worked well for us. Yeah. and I think the highest count we've ever got up to is 117, which only lasted one or two years. The 117th trail still exists. There's no signage or anything. but it's when we had a terrain park on 5th Avenue, underneath what's now the six pack lift. Yeah. And there's that little chute that comes down from the bull wheel onto 5th Avenue. Yeah. and yeah, they picked 117th Street because we had 116 official trails, that being 117th, and it all, and it came from New York City where they have that trail, and it somehow intersected with, CV Star, he had some association with it. Yeah, interesting. I do have to say, just listening to us going from 48 to 100 and something plus trails, when you come off the quad and you're going down the blue trails. Me and my friends, we've been skiing for 30 years, and we never can name what trail we're actually on. Are we on Lord? Are we on Standard? Are we on T Line? Are we on North Slope? Are we on Sunrise? we never quite know where we're at. I don't know if anybody else has that. We encounter it all the time. People call in accidents. They, sometimes they have no, no idea what trail they're on. They don't know if they're on Spruce Mansfield or Gondola sometimes. I grew up, I've skied stow for 40 years and sometimes I'm like, wait, what? I don't know what trail, huh? I don't know. Standard or Sunrise? So I know you mentioned it last episode, I, if I recall correctly, Centerline is your favorite trail? Correct. Any other one, like what are your top five? what do you, it sounds like, Hey, ride, you enjoy doing early in the morning, but what are some of your just absolute favorites? Nosedive, great, just great cruising trails. When I was younger and I could ski bumps a lot better than I can today. I always loved goat going there. You're private, you're by yourself. It's a challenging trail and when you get done, you've really done I'd say those are probably my, those are my top trails. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. there's a bunch of obscure ones too that I did little known or little talked about trails, Christiana, Houghtons. Daltons, that's one of my favorite trails, Daltons, that little lower part that nobody ever skis. if you look at the trail sign, it's not Daltons. Oh, what is it? It's The Dalton. The Dalton. It's named after, Dalton Wells. a local Waterbury resident. And as best as I can determine, and as it turns out, From my childhood, I think I remember the story that he, Dalton was working on the single lift at a time when they did not have radios and the cable started moving when he had his hand in one of the shiv wheels and he lost a finger or something like that. And I believe that's how the trail got named after him, but it's The Dalton. The Dalton. One trail that we didn't touch on, Ryan's Folly. Ryan's Folly is named after Jimmy Ryan, a ski patroller, who unfortunately passed away as a young man. But, We had gotten at the top of the mountain a call about an injured person and they gave a location. So first patroller goes down. Doesn't find the person. Another phone call. Same report, different location. Another patroller goes down until finally, the summit was drained of patrollers. There was one person left up there and a call came in again for the same report but yet a new location. So Jimmy Ryan left the top and went down and found the patient on this trail. It's a work road and it became Ryan's Folly as a result. And it's the trail as you leave Jake's ride going down easy mile. There's an immediate right hand turn, a little work road. That's Ryan's folly. And that's how it got its name. Yeah. I'd always wondered that. I know exactly where that spot is. All right. Yeah. And then, there's some zones out there such as angel food, for example, is that self explanatory or is there any, historical context there? It just suddenly appeared when they started naming some of that stuff out in that area, at one time it was all known as the mini booze. That's right. Yeah. People still call it that. Yes. But then they started getting narrowing it down more and more precise. Yeah. And where exactly those names come from, I couldn't tell you. Like Mac and Cheese. My kids used to always ski Mac and Cheese. Yes. Yep. The ski school still uses it. Yeah. Yeah, no, it is cool though. Just how, throughout history and experiences people have in the mountains, just the names that come about names that come and go. I think that, you're attracted to is it's a really cool piece of the history and, just that names do shift and change and absolutely we have trail names at Stowe that very clearly have changed. For example, today, what we know as Freddy's shoot. At the top of the Sunny Spruce lift started out as Gizzy's Gully. named after Giz Gillen, who just recently passed away actually. A very long time employee up at the mountain. And the only person that's had two trails named after him. Giz also had another one, became Gizzy's Chute. which is no longer open, but that went from the top of the Meadows lift down to the catwalk. And we only opened it for one year. and it was pretty dangerous when they had people entered onto, the catwalk. So we wrote that off. So that's all closed today. we haven't talked about any of the lodges. So our podcast is called the octagon, How did the Octagon come to be and when was it built? It came to be, again, Charlie Lord was one of the leads on that, 1940 they built it, and it was a true Octagon building, and it had a large stone hearth in the middle of the building. Ah. I clearly remember, the smell of smoke when you walked in, seeing the fire going. and if you look today when you walk in the Octagon. you can see, where the, old hearth used to be as actually out the roof of the building. I even have a great picture from the forties of my mom sitting on the red bench, which is the one that's at the ski museum in front of that fireplace in the octagon. Wow. And then it's undergone obviously several expansion since. Yeah. what about a historical piece on the cliff house? how long has that been up there and just, history there? The cliff house was built in 68, when the, four person gondola was first installed. And in the early years, they had someone living here all the time to keep it occupied. That'd be a cool place to live. It'd be a phenomenal place to live. Fresh powder. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Absolutely. The views. Yeah. But yeah, 68 was when the cliff house was built. Awesome. And then going over to Spruce, when did Spruce and Smugglers Notch become connected. and I know there's a trail that used to be called Snuffy's Trail. That's what I thought too. and you could go across the pond. I don't know, talk maybe. Yeah, Snuffy's. Snuffy's is still there. you can still find it. It's grown in these days. Yeah, still there for sure. But it was named after Freddie White. Who's nickname was Snuffy. I can remember him shuffling around up at the mountain. Cigars, chomp, guys chomping on cigars. And someone just decided to call it Snuffy after him. but that connected the two resorts, for decades. and at one time they were even grooming it. Didn't a groomer go into the pond? One time a groomer did go into the pond. Yes. It wasn't quite frozen. Yeah. I, as I heard it, the groomer had seven hours on it when I went in Oh, brand new groomer. Oh geez. How'd they get that out of there? Very quickly. Very quickly. Yeah. They, they got it out that it was nighttime in the dark, but they went right up and winched it right out of there. you have so much history, you've spent so much time on the mountain. You even lived in the base lodge. when you look at all the trails, all the landscape, we usually ask folks where they'd live if they didn't live in Stowe. If there's anywhere on the mountain, any of the trails were, you could build Brian's own cabin. Where would that be? Probably Hayride. Oh yeah. Just like we talked about. Just like we talked about. that view is beautiful. Yeah. It's tough to beat. Yeah. It really is. So in addition to Mt. Mansfield and skiing at Stowe, did Stowe have any other ski resorts? Yes, Stowe actually had multiple lost ski areas. There's a great exhibit at the Vermont Ski and Snowboard Museum right now. in fact, just before the exhibit came out, it was discovered that there was actually a ski area behind what we all know of as the Golden Eagle. That there was a small rope tow there, which none of us really had known about previously. the town and country, which just recently changed names about where their swimming pool is. Stu Ireland had built a hill and put a T bar on it. Yep. Fascinating story there. Built his own ski area and the snow came from shavings from the gutters and field house at UVM. but he had the only skiing in Stowe at one point during a terrible snow year. and then we had the big ski jump behind the elementary school. So yeah, there's been very skiers around here. Oh, on, Marshall Hill? Yeah. Marshall Hill. Where the sledding hill is now. Yeah. That hill is something. I remember just sledding that as a kid. Oh, yeah. The fastest I've ever gone on a sled. Yeah, it's a great ski jump hill. Yeah. There was also a ski area, a rope tow, where a dark side is, it was in there. That was a Strom's ski area where he gave lessons. So there's been a number of them. What about Opryski? today we think about the Matterhorn as being the legendary Stowe Opryski place. I have heard that Stowe once had a Playboy Bunny Club. They did. That was two Irelands, that was the town and country. Yeah, it wasn't a true Hugh Hefner bunny club. In fact, he got into trouble for imitating it. and he had to change his marketing and et cetera, but it was very much an imitation of the Hugh Hefner bunny clubs right here in Stowe, Vermont. Did you ever go to that? Nope. I was too young. We'll cover that off air. But that brings up. A great question about the first apres ski at Stowe. Yeah. And that was, Mrs. Houghton. And Mrs. Houghton had a, a restaurant slash bar where the parking lot is today for Bingham Falls. And people would ski down the early days before lifts. You can You exited the mountain on the Houghton, which still exists today coming down like from Nosedive. It's still, you can still follow it through the woods. It ends at Bingham Falls parking lot. So Mrs. Houghton is where you stopped for your beer when you got done skiing that first day. And that's how the trail got named Houghton. when did the den, come into play? That was the den. That was the original den. Oh, that's where they got the name. that's where the name came from. And then around 1940, the property got sold. The buildings were moved up to Barnes Camp and the den moved into a building that no longer exists next to the Lodge condominiums. that burned in 1969. But that was the den for. years and years and years And then when that burned in 69 the den went away and we resurrected it in the base lodge I forget the exact year in the 1980s Oh, so you missed the that's too bad. The den wasn't in the base lodge when you were living there That would have been something Are there any trails that no longer exist? Chinclip. Yes. Chinclip. it does and it doesn't. Yeah. Correct. there are other trails that have completely vanished, from the mountain. Chinclip is obviously the major one, but there also used to be a trail called Smugglers, not today's Smugglers, but that trail went from essentially what's the top of the sunny spruce lift to today. It cut down through across the hillside and ended at Barnes Camp. And that was the original smugglers trail, no trace of it left today. Yeah. there's some lines to be had back there. Oh yeah. There's a great line. Yeah. There's all, yeah. People ski it today without realizing that once was a trail with fewer trees. The original upper Perry Merrill, like today we know upper Perry Merrill is coming from the gondola down to the, basically the fence, big fence. The original upper Perry Merrill was over by Taft's Lodge. That's where that trail started. Cause there was no lift service. You had to hike up. So you would essentially hike to Taft's Lodge a little bit higher. And that's where Perry Merrill began. It cut back across the mountain. To where we think of the Perry Merrill today, that's still the original footprint of the rest of the trail, but it's been broadly widened. I remember skiing the original PM as a kid and you had to step over stumps and rocks and brooks and stuff. but upper Perry Merrill, the original has vanished. Ricky's run. It was with Henry's run. These trails have completely vanished. they vanished in 1983. They were, if you were standing at the base of Spruce and again, we're doing lookers view, not skiers view and looking up. little spruce. You had on the left side of the lift, you had West slope. Yeah. The right side of the lift, you had East slope and it wasn't very wide, nothing like today. And then to the further right, you had woods. And Ricky's run came down through the woods, essentially where the ski club is today, and came in a big sweeping arc, came back into East Slope down lower. So it was a beginner's trail. It vanished when we clear cut Little Spruce. It was just gobbled up. Henry's run was down much further, where the Inspiration Trail is today. and that was all recontoured as a kid. That was a pretty steep little trail in there. Oh, wow. So that's underneath inspiration today. then you have Armando's, which was named after a long time employee up there. That's on big sprues. and it still exists. If you ride the sensation lift, you go right over the top of it, but it goes from from Sterling trail, you have to climb uphill to get onto Armando's and it comes out on main street race. But once we started putting up all the red fencing, it closed that trail off, but that was Armando's. So yeah, I know I, I use a Strava when I go hiking and there's a segment climbing big spruce and it always said Armando's the top of big spruce and I just had no idea what it was. Thank you so much for joining us yet again, just a little more history in Stowe. It's so rich with history and the trails that I've skied hundreds upon hundreds of time. It's so cool to know the history behind all of them. Yeah. To think about the stories behind it when you're skiing down next time. And when I'm driving up Harlow Hill. Or going down or maybe behind somebody who doesn't have good tires. Used to go through a farm. Yes, absolutely. Thanks Brian. Hey, thank you guys. I appreciate it. Hope you all enjoyed that episode with Brian Linder. Our second episode with Brian focused on the trail names at Stowe and the history behind them. Remember to like us on Instagram and subscribe on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. We'll see you next time.