#16: Cap Chenoweth and the Legendary Stowe Derby

In this episode of The Octagon Podcast, we dive deep into the history and strategy of the legendary Stowe Derby with longtime competitor and local icon Cap Chenoweth. From its origins in 1945 to its status as one of the most unique and challenging ski races in North America, Cap shares firsthand stories, expert insights, and tips for tackling the 12.5-mile descent from the top of Mount Mansfield to Stowe Village. Whether you're a seasoned racer or a first-time participant, this conversation offers a fascinating look at what makes the Stowe Derby a true Vermont classic. Tune in for a mix of history, strategy, and classic Stowe spirit!

Transcript

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Welcome listeners to the Octagon. This is Mike Carey, co host with Ted Thorndike. Today, we've got a local legend and longtime Stowe resident, Cap Chenoweth. You'll see Cap around town playing tennis, holding court at the tennis club, biking, skiing, cross country skiing at Trapp's, but what Cap is best known for is his Stowe Derby experience. Cap has completed 35 Stowe Derbys and is the expert on all things Derby, including its amazing history. We thought an episode in the Derby was very timely since the race is being held this Sunday, February 23rd. Welcome Cap! Good to be here, gentlemen. Awesome. So you've done 35 years of the Derby? Yup. And I had the record for quite a while, only to be beaten by the named Alan Thorndyke, who got me last year by one. Wow. And, that's a, I gladly gave it up to him. Thanks for sharing that. That's amazing. So 35 years of doing the Derby. Any favorite or memorable races in those 35 years? I heard you once fell into a river. yeah. That would certainly be the most memorable. I had just started cross country skiing in 72 because I broke my Achilles tendon. And as part of the therapy, I wanted a free heel. So I started cross country skiing, and I was coming up to Stowe virtually every weekend from where I lived in Massachusetts, and I had no business going to the Derby, but I watched it that first year that it came back, which was, 1972. So in 73, I said, I gotta do this, but I was a real rookie. And I did it in jeans. I did it in really floppy shoes. And they were wooden Bona 1800 skis that I had. And I didn't know what I was doing. And the original course came down like it does now, but it crossed the street at the, Mount Mansfield Turing Center. It went across that field that's opposite the Turing Center and down the original Harlow Hill. Okay. Which is now a driveway, feeding a few houses, but it was a dirt road that was swooped down the hill. And it was a termination at the end of the road, which was the river. they put a couple of planks across the river on cement blocks. And I remember I, it was a hot day, so I had. Somebody told me, you better bring some cluster with you. I had it in my back pocket. And of course I went off the planks, into the river, landed on a rock, and burst the cluster tube in my rear pocket. of your jeans. Of my jeans. Just to confirm. And therefore, cluster will go anywhere. And now it's stuck to me, all over, and I am clustering my way, soaking wet. Towards the finish. So that was an auspicious beginning. And we, at that time we went one of the original, routes, where we crossed and, went up pig farm Hill and down across cottage club road, which was an off Canberra landing. Lot of pileups there a lot of people there because it was good pileups and you have to take it straight Because people didn't expect you to snowplow you have to push it and that results in crashes now We're gonna cross the golf course. Yeah cross Weeks Hill Road By Jack Pickett's cross there went on the Mayo farm Yeah. And at that time there were still pigs there. Yeah. And, we came into the church from the backside, not the way it is now. Wow. But it ended at the church. It ended at the church, as I remember. yeah. That's cool. just for our listeners, it might be helpful to get a little Derby history. How did it all start? It started back in the 40s with, two legends, Sepp Roesp and, Erland Strom, a Scandinavian that was a Nordic skier in his home state. And he had Strom's Lodge, which was now what is the Cactus Cafe. and he had, he was a great skier. And he was here, Alpine wise. Matter of fact, it was a rope tow. on the hill that goes up where, mountainside is now. But they had a bet about who was going to get first to town from skiing from the top of the mountain. And, I believe two other of the Mount Mansfield Ski Club personalities went with them. They crossed, there was no people shoveling across the road. And they went down. through the Turing Center, and as far as I can tell, they came out by the Matterhorn on Ranch, Ranch Camp Road, and must have crossed the street there. I don't know, the Matterhorn wasn't there, so they probably went right down where the Matterhorn is, down the side, and along the, west, branch, and headed down where the bike path is. Yeah. And that was the gamble that they had. They had a bet. So that's where the Derby started. So that first year, it was just those two? Four of them. There was four. Okay. And who won? Sepp did. Okay. And, cause he was a, he was an all around skier. In Austria, and, so was Erland. And it was still called, when I first came to town, it was still called the Strom Lodge. And, those guys started it. And then it went on, and I don't know when, we're trying to figure that out today, when it stopped. And I don't know if it was some lack of attendance, or those guys didn't do it anymore. But then it re emerged in 1972. what were the original rules as to the, one pair of skis, only certain age skiers, or was there any certain rules? I don't think there was any age, there was no age limitation, there was definitely the rules we have today, you have to finish at least on one of the skis you started with. You can change poles. and it wasn't until the early eighties when skating became vogue that they separated skaters from classic skiing. So 1972, it comes back. Do you remember how many people were in that 1972 race? Who was the person that really, made that push to Get it going again in 1972 that I don't know. Yeah. I don't know whether it might've been the ski club and, I know in the first one I did, and I still have the results sheet somewhere that there were about a hundred people did it. Okay. And I remember, I believe Larry Damon won it. there were some really good skiers and there were a bunch of hackers, which is how it should be. And that's the, that's what made the Derby. Yeah. And as we moved on to the 70s, where we started getting huge numbers, it was an event. It was a happening. You just went to do the Derby because it's the Derby. And families did it, kids did it, high school ski teams did it, young people, old people. There were wine stops along the way. Oh yeah. And. Jell O shots. Yeah, I remember Jell O shots. Yeah. The one that I did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and it basically, it was a full on. town event and there were all kinds of volunteers, people shoveling the rotary car, shoveling the roads, the rugby team, shoveling the roads and people supporting you wherever you went. You had water stops. And then, once you felt like you were getting better, you didn't stop for water. You didn't stop for anything, right? But, it was rather exciting. And you finished the derby, felt great. It was one of the events you did, no matter what. I've done the Derby a few times. I know, Ted, you've done the Derby. And I know crashing is a special part of the Derby. I've crashed in three out of the four Derbys I've done. What's the strategy to avoid crashing? not to Because I always go in with a strategy and it never seems to quite pan out. That first one or two turns, it gets a little crazy. You've got to make it through those first three turns. Yeah. The problem is, if you think you've got a chance in the age group competition, you go too fast. On, and for two reasons it's a bad strategy. You should go at about 80%. But if you're going at 90, 95 percent, you're going to go down, and you're going to go down big. and I've gone down big. And, several times. Not just the plank. Not just the plank. We used to start in the early, at the top, where you get off the lift now. And just ski over to the top of Nosedive. That's where it started. At the top of the quad? Yeah. Alright. So we did the whole toll road. Ah. And they basically changed that because they didn't want all the skiers hanging out in the octagon. Yeah. So you use the lookout double to get where it starts now, which is right at the head of the road going down. But there can be hellacious crashes and it usually occurs. In those days, some days it was a foot of snow. Sometimes it was ice cubes. That was like last year, it was pretty icy last year. And the corners when you get down near the chapel down in that area can be relatively hazardous. And that first big one coming off of Sunrise today is that 90 degree turn, they bank now. It is like the old days. Where you went straight off into the woods. And you'd always go by and you'd see people coming out of the woods. Yeah. Yeah. With a half a ski, they put a ski patroller down in the woods to push people back up. I remember that. Heckler's Corner. Heckler's Corner. Yeah. Heckler's Corner. Heckler's Corner. Then down, underneath Easy Mile, which you can get cooking down there. Yeah. And you, and one of the things that I did that helped was you alternately snowplow, let them run, snowplow to use different muscles. Because what happens by the time you get down? And you, then you start having to go a little bit uphill, you get, you're cooked in terms of your quads, lactic acid. So I found it, found that to be a helpful remedy. And then pipeline. And then you come down pipeline, which that to me is one of the scariest, especially if somebody's down as you're skiing down that, that's tough to navigate. That hill by the covered bridge, condominiums. That's what I'm, yeah. That pipeline. oh, got it. Yeah. It's. I crashed like twice, but yeah, but 10 or 12 years prior to that. We didn't go that way. what we did was when you came out of the Derby Trail, crossed the bridge at the bottom, you went down the corkscrew, crossed the river on the bridge, and up that steep hill on the other side, and went on what is now called the Derby Trail, it got to a fork. And the fork changed when John Higgins, because the flood of 93 destroyed Adams driveway, which went up to the Adams camp. And that had a big, that was a gully like the pipeline, always scraped clean, always piles of people. You had to either ski over, around, or through. And you came and teed into the river, and they had a fence, so you wouldn't go into the river. And you took a right and went along those little roads and crossed the covered bridge. And got on potentially, essentially where the bike path is now. And that went on for years here. And that was always the worry because you had to come down that gully and it was arced, it was basically looked like a half pipe and you had no edges. You had wooden skis and you just slid down the thing. And it's much like the pipeline is now, and I understand through the land, efforts of the land trust and others, that there's going to be another diagonal pass, which is originally going to come, it's going to come down diagonally. and meet Covered Bridge Road, and then cross the bridge. Because there used to be a carpet on the bridge. You skied across a carpet that had snow on it. And hit it off that way. Yeah, I did the race last year, and it ended at the Turing Center. Due to lack of snow. I did it with my brother, and he crashed on that first turn. Pretty bad, and then I just went. Hard. I was like, okay, this is my chance to beat him. I beat him and, he came across the finish line. He didn't know I was ahead of him and he looked horrified. Cause the last time we did it together, we went all the way to town and he beat me by a few minutes. that was one of my favorite derby memories. That's a great one. That was competitive. I've done it with friends and it's been competitive. I think it's better to chase. Then to be in the lead. I don't know. I've been in the lead and I'm constantly looking over my shoulder like, is my friend about to catch me or not? once you get down to the bike path. To the path, yeah. Full send. You're either double pulling the whole way or alternating double pull and kick and glide and you know that maybe you can pass the guy in front of you but maybe you're gonna get passed. Yeah. And I've had both. Yeah. I know one cool thing about is a lot of college racers Do the race pretty, we used to have a lot of money. Yeah. We used to have a lot of the college teams cause they had a race on Saturday and they would come up, we'd always get Dartmouth Middlebury. And now occasionally we get some UVMers and, that, that's one thing that really needs, we need to get the high school teams because they used to do it too. And to do that, we got to get the price down a bit because the high school kids not going to pay 75 or 80 to do it. And that's how we got to make it more all encompassing, I think. Yeah, I think what makes a derby so unique is, it's competitive people, it's people that have never cross countried before, it's people doing jello shots. It's the whole atmosphere, that sort of carnival atmosphere that when I've done it, a while ago, do you remember the group in the 1980s called the moose? No, I don't. And the moose model was we choose to lose. They would guarantee in every age group, they'd have somebody finishing last. Oh wow. So don't worry about finishing last because a moose, and they all wore antlers. That's cool. They brought lunches with them. And that was great. And that's the kind of the spirit camaraderie and spirit that existed. in all the years of the Derby, what would you say was, just, the golden years, so to speak, of attendance and excitement? I would say 76 through 88 or somewhere in that range. With lots of people, it was a thing to do. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people came from Burlington, Waitsfield, Warren. there were a lot of people, Nordic people, non Nordic people. Just to do the derby. And the race was getting 6, 7, 800, 900 people during those years. Yeah. What does it get now? What are we, every average year? I believe last year we had around 250. 250. Yeah. Yeah. obviously, I'm impartial, because he's my father. But, uh, you know, you know, Alan Thorndike was, how many derbies did he do? I believe he did 36. 36. So more than you just, that, if you count the Derby meister as two. Okay. Yeah. which I didn't technicality, which I didn't. Yeah. But I gave it to him, but could you just speak a little to, the spirit and excitement that he embodied to the Derby and, I do know he was involved in some of the volunteering and he'd get rotary members to shovel snow across the road, but as his son, he was always so pumped about it. But if you could maybe just speak to that, Alan did was the Derby in free. That's one of the events he always did. And Alan, God rest his soul. That he'd do 10 events a day if he could. And, he did Winter Meister, he did Derby Meister, he did But he loved the Derby. And he embodied the spirit of what it was. And, I'm gonna miss him up there at the start. Because he, last year, he was He took a picture and gave Mike and I a picture of the starters last year. Which was really thoughtful and both have it on the mantelpiece, cause that's Alan. he loved the Derby. Yeah, he got me back into it. I took some years off cause I came to the conclusion I just enjoyed. going to heckler's corner or I just enjoyed I'd go up there downhill ski and I would just watch the crashes. I was like, this is way more fun than doing the race. But then my dad got me back in. And I'm glad he did. I'm glad he did. Yeah. You've been pretty much a regular. Yeah. I've been Back at it. And on that note, I'm doing the Derby Meister. Have you done the Derby Meister before? I have not. could you tell our listeners, what is the Derby Meister, Cap? The Derby Meister basically is you're starting off, in this case, with a skate. Yep. And you go to town, and then you get a ride back up top. And there's a delay, and you get a number, your number, your second number is late in the classic race. So there are a few people that straggle and we wait for them and, to get up there. But when you do the Derby Meister, you go off at the end of the classic. And it's remarkable that you don't feel worse. Yeah. doing two. Didn't, I guess you had a half an hour rest, a 45 minute rest. You felt pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. It's my first year doing it. So the skate goes off at what? 10? Yeah. And they'll put you at the front. I'm assuming. Puts you at the front. Yeah. Takes about an hour and 15 to get to town, something like that. It used to be when the skate, because I remember, I think my best was 47 minutes. Okay. But I got beat by 10 minutes. I'm there were guys who were really good. Yeah. US teamers and yeah. Stuff like that. But the derby meister is, it's a good feeling to finish'em both. Yeah. you're pretty well wiped out when you're done. but it's a wonderful thing to go to the party and have a beer and say, Hey, it's my first attempt at it, and you'll do fine. What about you, Mike? Are you I'm contemplating it. I know you were mentioning doing the Derby Meister. curious on that. I'm getting motivated listening to this. Mostly because now I'm going to chase you if I do it. I'm going to start right behind you. See, I think one of the changes that should be made, is to put the classic first because they've made the tracks. And they only have to re groom the toll road. They don't have to re groom the whole bike path all the way in to put tracks in. Yeah. Because the skaters have trashed the ones that have been there. Not a bad idea. And I think that should happen. and compress the start. Because you know when you're out skiing, you both know this, there are people that pass you and you pass people. And people Let you go by, and it's always been, the skaters are going to pass the tail end of the classic, so what? it doesn't make any difference. because the classic guy is in his track and the skater can go around him. sometimes in a tight spot in the woods, but you have that whether you're skating a classic anyways. Just part of the deal. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the first time I did it, I did classic. And I was new to cross country skiing and I was in the track doing my thing. And this person came behind me and started yelling, TRACK! TRACK! TRACK! And I was like, what? What? And basically, get out of the track so I can pass you. In the track. So I pulled over and let them pass me in the track. What is the etiquette there? I actually I didn't know. I didn't know the etiquette. I don't do classical. It's actually in the rules if you read. if a faster skier comes up behind a slower skier, And lets the person know, and usually it's a hup, hup. You step out of the track and let them go. because they're in the track and they're obviously grooving it. I remember one year, I have no idea when it was, but Larry Damon was still skiing pretty strongly. They weren't seated. And he had gone by me, and we were going up Pig Farm Hill. And I hear this Huh, huh, like hot. I said, no, it's hot around here. I don't know what I'm looking, what I'm going. the same feeling you had. You didn't know what they were saying, Mike. And the lady had fallen down on the steep part of the hill. Sideways to the trail. Larry skied up and over, and I said, are you supposed to do that? So I did too, and I learned later on, this is probably, I must have been in the early days because I didn't know what hut meant, but that's the etiquette that if you're in the track and it doesn't apply, if you're in the track, should you get out of the track? Either one. Yeah. You get out of the track, but it doesn't happen that often. usually people, usually there are two tracks when you're down on the bike path, but some of them have been obliterated. You just do the best you can. I'm going to start doing that at Traps on a busy holiday weekend, just yelling at people. Will those people ever just pass, if they're in the track, will they just, if somebody's going slow in the track, just pass the person? I think you could do that too. Yeah. I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get ready. I don't really do any classical skiing. Oh. I just skate mainly. All right. yeah. You'll be fine, Teddy. Oh, yeah. You'll be absolutely fine because. I'm going to do 45 minutes in the skate, probably. Oh, yeah. I would imagine you are. I don't know about that. I don't, yeah, I don't know. It's funny though. The Derby Meister, I've been talking to Andrew Rush, who's doing the Derby Meister, who is also the grandson of Sep Rush. Yeah, we were just going over logistics, like, how long will the drive take, how long is it gonna take us? And what to have in the vehicles at the end of the first lap. So we're, so you're staging a car at in town? Yeah. Somebody's gonna pick us up. Someone's gonna take Yeah, that's the way, because then you can drive right to the mountain, drop you off and drop you off rather than back up worry about parking of the shuttles and all that stuff. yeah. And that would be the way he did it in the old, in the old days. When we started doing that, we, you drive up and park there. Yeah. And now you can't. Yeah, What if you break a pole? So if you break a pole. You hope that somebody has a pole that's nearly the same length that's on the side of the trail. So you can borrow, you can take somebody else's pole. Alright, so that's allowed. And actually, in one of my last few years I did it, I wore my bike helmet. I said, okay, this is probably a good idea. I wore my bike helmet down the hill and I threw it to somebody at the Turing Center. Yeah. I said here, if you bring it into the Turing Center, when you, if you get a chance, thank you. and, I felt a little better with that on because, you're going pretty quick in certain areas, right? And it all depends how they groom it and how much snow there is. That is un groomed, because when you come down the power line before you get to the Turing Center, I've seen that one. That's just a six foot track. That's got two feet of powder on either side. And sometimes you'll just see a body under there with an arm flapping about. It's been down in the deep stuff and there's a corner at the end go left of the telephone pole You get a better attack on the corner Yeah. How about conditions for this year's Derby? It's going to be perfect. It looks good. And the weather looks nice. The weather looks great. Calm wind. It's going to be great. Yeah. Yeah. Great year for a Derbymeister, for sure. And absolutely going to town. We know that, right? Oh, yeah. There's no risk of it going to town. Because we had bumper stickers years ago when they tried to change it and it was, the Derby goes to town. Yeah. that's the. Cool part of it. And a couple of years we did it when they were logging in Ranch Camp Ranch. In the Ranch Valley. We had to go up the connector Oh wow. Up to the hall road. And that is a climb. Yeah, it is. Yeah. It was about a three K climb going up there and then down the hall road. Until Adams camp and then went down Adams camp till you get back on the derby trail that added some time Yeah to it and did that a couple years several years. It's finished the traps. Yeah, it's several years It's finished at the Turing Center last year did top notch. I remember top notch Jim Shepard ski shop it finished on the golf course It finished, in town, of course. you, I think one of the things the committee should do next year is have plan B already planned out. Okay, if we can't do this, where do we go? And have the finish all, rather than a last minute, Oh no, we can't go because it's ice storm or something. And, but I know a couple of years we started at the top of what's the triple now or the six pack because it was an ice storm and they did it in terms of safety and it was very cold. It was like it is today. yeah. Can you think of any other? similar to the Stowe Derby. It's obviously so unique. Any other around the world kind of downhill Nordic race? There was one at Burke and I think it was called the Inferno. And I did it a couple of years and it started at the top of the Burke mountain and went down the toll road and then into town. And I remember doing that and I remember piling up big as well in the. And on the, you get going too fast. Yeah, that's one year on the same thing on the easy mile. Just as a point of interest, I did an end over end and lost both skis. I don't know how they released, but they came off. And I said, Oh, no, I'm done for the Derby. I can't feel it. No, but Jan Reynolds caught one. It hit her, actually. And the other one went in the bushes and I could run down and get it. So I still finished. Jan Reynolds, Octagon podcast guest. Yeah, exactly. She's probably done a few Derbys. Have there been, has there been Olympic athletes that have done the Derby? Oh, yeah. Peter Davis did it for years. There's been several, yes. So it's had some elite racers. Bob Gray. Bob Gray. Through the years. Larry Damon. Larry was a four time Olympian and, and they were seriously good skiers. Yeah. I've also, I have competed in it, the Wintermeister. Oh, yeah. could you share about the winner? A whole different event. A whole different event here. I did it with my father, actually. It was super fun, but, I don't know the wintermeister. I was on the Stowe Winter Carnival Committee. And I ran, we did two cross country races. it was called the Coca Cola 15K at Traps and we did the Dr. Pepper 5K. Your dad did them all. Of course. And, that was up at the Turing Center and we were looking for another event for the Winter Carnival. And I came up with, the Wintermeister and that was 1983. And it was three events. It was a two run GS on the, at the mountain and it was a thousand meter speed skate and it was. It started as a 15. Ice skate. Speed skate, ice skate. Speed skate, ice skate. At the rink? Yep. Had the hockey skates on. Yep. I did my first 10 years with hockey skates and I finally got speed skates. What a difference that is. Some people had speed skates. Yeah, it was pretty cool. What a difference. And then we did, After this, I think the speed skate was last, but we did the 15K Coca Cola race, which was on the same weekend, which we cut to 7. 5K because decathlon scoring, your points were a percentage of the winner. Winner got a thousand points, yours was a percentage of your time down. So it equi it made equivalent. It's just like the javelin and the pole vault in the decathlon and track. How do you compare the two? you do points. And, but we found out that a really good cross country skier could obliterate the point spread. So we brought it down to seven and a half so the delta would be a little bit less. And that worked really well and we got some really close. Finishes and we ran that for 25 years until the winter carnival petered out. Yeah. And, it was a great, that was a great event. It sounds like. Yeah. I did it once, but I'm glad I. How many laps around the rink is, was the speed skate nine laps. And we use it. we had a thing marked in the ice of the actual, where you put the pylons, which were toilet plungers. And, Eddie Mercier, I don't know if you remember Eddie Mercier. I do. Eddie had the whole thing measured out every year. And it was fun. And that was fun because there were some good skaters. Yeah, Scott. Scott Dorwart. He had the legit speed skate thing going. Yeah, like you see in the Olympics. Yeah. With the movements, with the arms coming down. The correct form. Most of us had, I'd say 30 percent had speed skates. And it makes a big difference. Yeah. And we actually had a slow speed skating club. I played slugs for years. And, the hockey skates were okay, but they weren't as fast as speed skates. But it's a whole different technique. And I can't even skate on hockey skates anymore. I think we bring the Wintermeister back. That sounds like a cool event. The Octagon, we'll bring it back. That was a cool event. It was a great event. Your dad was one of the biggest supporters of it ever. He loved it. That's awesome. Let's do some rapid fire questions, Cap. Sure. Skate or classic? Classic. Single event or derby meister? I would think now it's going to go after this year's single event. Costume or no costume? Oh, that's good. Costumes are good. Costumes. Stop for jello shots along the route or stay in race form? Personal choice. Apply wax mid race or just go for it? Done both. I find that a good waxless ski is the answer. Got it. And last one, non derby question. Would you rather cross country to soup at the Traps cabin in the winter? Or doubles tennis followed by drinks and snacks on the patio in the summer? That's a tough question. I would take cabin. Cabin? Oh, I was thinking he was going to do tennis club. No, I've seen Cap holding court at the Stowe Tennis Club deck. many a summer night. I spent a lot of time sitting down. Enjoying a cold beverage. awesome, good stuff. Thanks for all that, that Stowe Derby info. We're just going to pivot a little bit and explore your life in Stowe. I know you mentioned living in Mass and coming up on a lot of weekends to go skiing, but when did you first come to Stowe and when did you decide to move here? First year I came, I would say it was 66. I came up for a week in 67, and then I was working as a ocean scientist, ocean engineer down in Mass, and I'd been there four years, and I was 26, and I decided I needed to take a year, like the Australian zoo. So I went to Europe for six months, traveled around, hitchhiked. Try and just went to different, all the places you'd, Istanbul and Athens and the islands of Greece and, up in Scotland and Wales. and when I came back, it was in the fall and I wasn't quite ready to get a job again. I said, I'll just go up skiing in Stowe for two weeks. I got up here and there was no snow and Gar Anderson had just started. He and John Miller. The rusty original rusty nail, which was at the gale. It was the gale farm house barn And so I got hired as a carpenter to help build the rusty nail and That's what I did and then I became the afternoon bartender And then I became the evening bar, one of the evening bartenders and the place was jammed. It was like 600 a night on a weekend. People would come through the door and there were good bands. And then I went back to Boston and I ended up teaching at a private school. Teaching physics. And I did that for, and come up every weekend. And I did that for six years. And then I came to Stowe, and I got the teaching job over at CVU, teaching physics and math. And then I went back into engineering. I started my, Sunworks engineering, which we did, started in solar systems. This 80s. And then heat pumps. We were really first into heat pumps, first into radiant heating. And so we, we did well. We rode the wave here in Stowe. And then I started teaching again at the academy where I still am, part time, and I've now retired from the other business, but, so it's been a rather eclectic. Yeah, you've been here, that's cool. So I actually moved full time here in 75. 75? Yeah. What was it still like in 1975? 1970 was definitely the Wild West. There were, it was a bunch of characters, I'll put it that way. The Ted McKays of the world. And there were some unbelievable stories. And Stowe was just, it was great. And a lot different than it is now. Not that it isn't great, but it's a lot different than it is now. There was far less traffic, far less, we had two, actually two policemen. And that was, As long as you didn't do anything really stupid, you were okay. I thought I heard that they wanted, they used to go to bed at nine o'clock and everybody knew once they went to bed, then you could do what you wanted. And they would, apparently there were guys that would get a little bit of under the weather and they'd go get them and bring them home. And that was, it was a different, a whole different thing. What else have you noticed? you've been in Stowe a long time. You mentioned, 1970, 1975. What else have you really noticed as far as how Stowe has changed? obviously it's gone upmarket. And I also think the biggest change that I have seen, in my feeling, is the advent of the Airbnb. And that all these second homes, we've always had a lot of second homes, but they'd be occupied 30, 40 percent of the time because the people would come up on weekends or they come up in the summer holiday. It was always, busy in the summer and busy on ski weekends always was. But now with the short term rentals, it's become a 90 percent occupancy, which means Many more cars, many more people. you look at the traffic jams we have in the summer, the gridlock and the gridlock on the mountain road that occurs on a nice day or a powder day. it happens every time. And I find that being the most negative in my mind, That the infrastructure hasn't. evolved with the popularity of Stowe. Yeah, I don't think it can. And I think the advent of the, Epic Pass, which made it a lot more inexpensive and wide ranging to buy an Epic Pass opened the place up. So a lot more people, I'll go to Stowe. I don't blame them for wanting to go to Stowe, that's for sure. But they do that, and of course that's more people. And then the huge amount of building done up at the mountain, at Spruce. All the hotels and condos, that's what's changed. What, as you look out the next five to 10 years, what's your hope for Stowe? I hope I'm still here in 10 years. Hope you're here to see it. That, that, that's, I haven't heard that answer yet. That's a good one. I don't know. I think something's got to be done in terms of more public transportation. One of the ideas I've had, because I've skied a bit in Europe, where they have long range gondolas. that go to the mountain. I think there's got to be a location that's down near Bouchard's Field where you'd find parking and you get on an eight person gondola with your ski stuff that goes right to the mountain. Much like they do out west in certain places, in Europe. And you travel by gondola. And it, then, that backs off the load on the mountain road, which I don't think can be widened. I don't see how it can. Unless by eminent domain they take half the buildings down. And so I think that would help a lot. Yeah, it'd be amazing. I've always, I've thought that too. It'd be simple. You just bring your backpack and your skis and get on a gondola. Yeah, that'd be cool. And there's big fields by the high school that probably could be arranged as off campus parking. Yep. Yeah, I think a lot of people like to have their cars up at the mountain, I feel like. Yeah, that's just it. It would be a cool experience. Definitely. There's just no parking, like when you go in Europe, right? There's no way to park at the mountain. that's just, that's what you do. That's the only way to get there, right? Yeah, you either take a train, a public, a public train. I, we went about three years ago to Val Gardena area. And 440 lifts, 2500 square kilometers of skiing, about 12 mountains, 10 villages, and you just skied from town to town, lift after lift, beautiful skiing after beautiful skiing. They have 350 piston bullies. We have 7. So everything is groomed perfectly every day. And yet you travel, you end up in some other town that's 15 miles away and the lifts close, the bus is part of your ticket. You get your Lyft ticket, you get on a bus, you go back home. And I just love, they've been, they're way ahead of us in terms of It sounds like it. It'd be like skiing from here to Sugarbush. Yep. on Lyfts, right? exactly. That's cool. And good food in Italy too, and the food. And the food, and there's beer halls at every level of the mountain. Yeah. So Cap, we ask all our guests this question. If STO did not exist, where would you live? That is a really great question because I find my own feeling is there is no reason to leave here because there's no place. I'd rather be because of what I like to do. Yeah, okay. You could say I would be on like to be on an island somewhere, but I get bored with that. Yeah, me too. and maybe. There are certain areas, maybe New Mexico, maybe Taos or something like that, but I like having the ocean close by. Yeah, I like having the mountains. I like being able to go out my back door. I like to get on my dirt road on the bike. Yep, which is now an e bike, by the way. Is that right? We love e bikes here on the Octagon. Mike is an e bike ambassador for the Octagon Podcast. He likes Game Changer. Yeah, a hundred percent, Cap. And watch what they're saying. And so the happy thing is. Did I like where I am. Yeah. Okay. Even though there's some traffic problems and all that stuff. Where else do I want to live? Yeah, you may live further out of town or something, but I'm not gonna move. I can't even get out of my shop So what the heck? Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. So just so our listeners anybody that hasn't signed up for the Stowe Derby Where could they find information on the Stowe Derby? Sign up for this Iconic there's a website you can go on the ski club website. You can go on the Academy website And it'll direct you to a link where you can sign up. It's not skireg. com. It's another outfit this year that's But if they go to the ski Mount Mansfield Ski Club Academy website. They can find it, yeah. They can find it and to sign up. Because I know, like last year, they limited it to Friday. now Wisely, they've said, okay, Saturday entries and there may be even some early Sunday morning entries. Yeah. So could somebody show up at Momentsville Academy on Saturday afternoon and sign up in person? Yes. Cool. And the weather looks great. Weather looks great. Snow's great. And I'm just hoping, I'm just hoping that we get It's a really positive vibe with the people doing it, so it comes down to a happy time and an event. Absolutely. Because we can't lose it. No. We gotta gain from it. I love it. And grow with it. So any listeners on the fence, you have the information of where to sign up. You can do it in person at Montmansville Academy Saturday afternoon, or just go on their website. And, yeah, you should do it. And you can go any speed you want. Absolutely. I just decided I'm doing it. Yeah. All right. Good man, Mike. Love it. All right. All right. I'll see you at the start. Sounds great. All right. Thanks. Thanks, Cap. Thank you, John. Thank you, guys. Hope you all enjoyed that episode with Cap Chenoweth on the Stowe Derby. The Stowe Derby is this Sunday, February 23rd. Both Ted and I are signed up for the Derby Meister. We hope to see you all there. You can sign up on the web on the Mount Mansfield Ski Club Academy website under the events tab, mmsca. org slash events. See you next time.