#27: Charlotte Brynn: Adventures of a World Class Open Water Swimmer

This week we had the pleasure of sitting down with world-class open water swimmer Charlotte Brynn. Charlotte  has completed over 50 marathon swims including some of the toughest swims on Earth — Charlotte is also one of the top women open water coaches and mentors in the world. Charlotte has been the Executive Director of the Swimming Hole here in Stowe for over 20 years and has motivated and helped countless people to set big goals for a specific event or simply begin their swimming and exercise journey. Charlotte grew up in the beautiful country of New Zealand and has been a fixture in Stowe for 25 years.

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This episode of the Octagon is sponsored in part by archery close. Hey, this is Chris and Taste from Archery Clothes, your go-to boutique. For men's and women's fashion, we carry a curated selection of clothing, footwear, and gifts from unique and emerging brands. We're proud to sponsor the Octagon and even prouder to be local business owners here in Stowe. We love how the Octagon captures the history and characters of this incredible town. After coming off the slopes or the trails, stop by archery close. Located at 1650 Mountain Road in Stowe. Open seven days a week, or always open online@archeryclose.com. Welcome listeners to the Octagon Podcast, where we explore the stories, people, and places that make stove Vermont so legendary. I'm your host, Ted Thorndyke, joined by my co-host Mike Carey. We are excited to introduce our guest today, Charlotte. Bryn Charlotte is a world class open water swimmer who has completed over 50 marathon swims, including some of the toughest swims on earth. Charlotte is also one of the top women open water coaches and mentors in the world. Charlotte has been the executive director of the swimming hole here in Stowe for over 20 years and has motivated and helped countless people to set big goals for a specific event or simply begin their swimming and exercise journey. Charlotte grew up in the beautiful country of New Zealand and has been a fixture in Stowe for 25 years. Welcome Charlotte. Thanks so much. Welcome. It's so great to be here. You're welcome. Yeah, great to have you here. So we'll just jump right in. can you take us back to the beginning in New Zealand? What first drew you to the water and love of swimming? definitely I was really fortunate to grow up in an island. if you love water, that's a good thing. Yeah. And, I was, born and grew up about a mile from the ocean. And, I was immediately drawn to it by the, age of five. I was running that mile to the beach to go swim before school. And then head off to school. And, then The local council built a 50 meter outdoor pool right alongside the beach, and, the rest is history. I swam as much as I could and I, my mother enrolled me in piano lessons, which I thought was so fun. I could bang away on the keys, but I would go to the pool first and arrive for that priority reasons. And, The, the teacher reached out to my mother and said, oh, Mrs. Hepburn, could we talk to you about Charlotte? She's very enthusiastic, but, we think there might be a better activity she's suited for. And my mother was like, what's going on? And she said, every time she comes for a lesson, she's got a bathing suit wet under her clothes, and all the other pupils have to sit on a wet stool. Wow. For the wow. That's for the rest of the time. And so I went through a few different activities. Ballet was the same type of thing. My mother got called in and I was galloping around the room with wet hair. And the other, ballerinas were slipping on the floor. And eventually they figured out that I just needed to be in the water. that's a good story. And did you start swimming competitively, as a kid or in high school? at first it was just exploring the beach and the ocean. Yeah. And then once I got into school, every school has school races, swimming races and running races. And so that's how I got into competitive swimming was through school events. Got it. No goggles, no swim cap here, everywhere, and just thrashing down the pool. It was really fun. Yeah. so as you got older, what was the next phase of. Competitive swimming. did you compete in college or, just as you got older? I don't know much about, competitive swimming. So what happened next was, and I grew up in this little coastal town till I was 12, and I was the youngest of four kids, and the other kids had all headed out of home. And so my parents decided to send me away to a city to school. Okay. I was devastated. Yeah. there was no more running down to the beach. Yeah. I'd start putting shoes on and, it took me quite a while to adjust and the school had very strict, rules on when you could come and go. And we had three weekends a term, which would be a semester. And three evenings you could go out to dinner with your family. And my one saving thing there was, they had a pool. It wasn't heated, turns out that. Served you well, it served me very well, and that was just like a sanctuary for me. So I, would swim before school and I took all the lifeguarding courses, got certified to lifeguard and then I figured out that once you got on the school sports teams, you could travel outside of school and go other places for events. And so for me it was athletics and swimming. When I first got to the school, I was very skinny and quite tall, not. Too coordinated.'cause I'd grown very quickly. I tried out for every sports team. There was, netball, tennis. I couldn't get on any teams and so I knew I had to do something. Yeah. So I made it on the table tennis team. Oh wow. Because you had to be on the top school team to be on the team to travel. So I was gonna play my best table tennis and I did all year. And then, each year I got stronger and by the end I was competing in, at, in the track team and swimming. And tennis. And, but it was a fun story because yeah, I'd start ground level and work my way up. Wow. Ringer at the table. Tennis around. Ow here. Yeah, sometimes it's pretty fun. And people are like, where did you learn that? And I'm like, it was my first year of being a runt at school. Yeah. And, yeah, it was pretty fun actually. I just, I'll find joy in whatever I do. It's just about putting everything into it, whatever you're Absolutely. so the end of high school, I, applied to go to University of Otago for physical education. They take about a hundred people a year, so about 3 million in the country. It was pretty, it was competitive. yeah, definitely. And I didn't really know that I would get in to it, but I was really lucky that I did. Nice. And that was down in Dunedin and they had a 50 meter Olympic pool there. So that was right up my alley, was a four year degree, a year of it was on aquatics. Wow. And then I also studied, Marketing and management. So it turned out to be a really perfect combo for me. Yeah. And it's like those things, when you study, you don't really know how it will all benefit you until years later and you're like, oh, okay. So we had to work with the med students for a year on anatomy. We worked with cadavers, learning about the body, and I'm like, you're doing that before your lunch break. I'm like, this is really necessary. And it was really helpful. Yeah. So at that time in New Zealand, the adventure racing was born. It was a guy called Robin Judkins, mad as a snake. Incredible laugh. We thought he was bonkers, but he was ab absolutely brilliant. And he devised an event from the west coast of New Zealand. Up the Southern Alps, down through the rivers to the east coast. And how he did it was a couple of buddies and him climbed Mount, aspiring, and they were like, I think we just about went from one coast to the other. So he, in 1983, started setting up these adventure races that people were like, no one's gonna do it because it's insane. And he had a smaller one called the Alpine Iron Man. And I always laugh. People say, have you done an Iron Man? I'm like, oh yeah, wait till you hear about this one. So we're at sea level in New Zealand, but we've got incredibly high, beautiful Alps. And so this event. Started at the base of Mount Hart scarier and you ascended 2000 feet up the Alps and the ruling was pretty, wide. It's like you need to get your scare equipment up there. And when you get to the top, you are going to ski down till you run outta snow on the other side of the Alps. Then you're gonna alpine run through these incredible scree slopes. Yeah. That just cut your legs like a knife. And then you get down to the Spaniards, which are these vegetation, which are like green knives. And so we would tape our legs so we wouldn't get sliced so much. then you have to take off your gear. And what we did was we stripped down hiking packs and the frames and we buned on shorter skis we could find in boots and we would carry them on our backs to the summit, go down, carry that all down until we got onto the flats, pick up a kayak, and then we had to run with the kayak down to this wow. Graded river and get ourselves in the river for seven K, get down to the road and then bike to, of course New Zealand most things ended a pub. So we biked to the blue pub and I'd never done anything like this. And it was really the whack and explain it as blood, sweat, and tears. Yeah. And what I got a dose of was fighting mother nature. Yeah. Battling and working with her and persevering on. Even though you dunno where you are going. Yeah. And it's so extreme up there and I loved it. Yeah. there were 40 competitors and females weren't really racing at that point. There were four females. I came in second and I completely had the bug. Absolutely loved it. And I think that's probably where my, open water marathon swimming came from. Got it. Got it. And so are you doing those kind of events and then transitioning to the open water adventures or, so some of those events had open water. In them. Yeah. in New Zealand, there are bits that can be a wee bit sharky and so adding to the adventure. Adding to the adventure. And so the swim would tend to be in a harbor or a coastal area. And looking back on photos, I'm like, oh my God, no one would do it. Now you're like, clambering over rocks and you got the tsunami warning sign on one end of the beach and the shark bell on the other. We didn't even think about it. We are like, oh, this is gonna be great. Yeah. It was a rush. Yeah. It's a good motivation to swim fast. So that's really how I got into those sorts of events. Yeah. yeah, you did some of the adventure racing. I'm guessing at some point you switched over just purely swims. Maybe just take us into that chapter. I, I did. definitely so when I was in New Zealand, and in college in my, Winter breaks. I taught skiing and ski patrolled. Yep. And I loved the mountains and how I got to the United States was to come over and ski in Colorado. Oh, okay. And so fast track it. I had quite a few winters in Steamboat Springs, which I loved. Absolutely adored it. That's a good spot. And that's where I met my husband, Jeff, of 30 years. We are celebrating our 30th anniversary this weekend. Oh, congratulations. Oh wow. Congrats. Thanks. You're going swimming? Yeah. Yeah. She may not I'll. And he's a fourth generation for Monta. Yeah. Okay. And we, Got married, spent some time in New Zealand and decided that Vermont was where we were going to settle. We came out to Vermont, stayed with his parents in, Burlington. He grew up in Shelbourne and we got in a car and we cruised around the scaries. Yeah. Particularly, sugar bush. Stove and smugglers. Yeah. And we just drove around. It was in the foliage, 1998 and we're like. Yeah, this is it. I really like this. Yeah. Yeah. I was into mountain biking. Yeah. I loved trail running. And Jeff had skied at STO and Bolton really liked sto. He's you're gonna love this mountain. and I really did. Yeah. So we had a six month old son. My son Stern was born in New Zealand. My daughter Heidi was born, here in Vermont. And we felt that Stowe was a great place to raise our kids. And that the school system seemed really good and we are really pleased that we did. Yeah. And so the one shock once we got settled here was there wasn't any ocean. No ocean. Yeah. No ocean. And I found it really hard. Yeah. the first year it was extremely difficult. Yeah. And, I, adapted mountain bike and ran, my real heart is for the water. Yeah. And I was really fortunate, to discover, Jake Carpenter. Had a vision to have a gift to the community of a swimming pool. Yeah. And he, had three boys and a pond at his house, the boys would have people over to come and swim and he was just, then my New Zealand word is gobsmacked, but it horrified that some of these boys couldn't swim. And I couldn't swim to save their lives. And he was the captain of his swim team passionate about swimming. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Really. He was a really great swimmer, actually. Really good. Cool. And so he had this dream and, made it a reality in quite a short time. And so the swimming hole, maow. Like world class above what I already thought it was to me. Yeah. And then I also discovered Green River Reservoir. Oh yeah. Very happy about that. Non-motorized boat. Amazing. A beautiful area. that's how I got into it. I had a friend in, 2005 six said, Hey, Do you want to join me for a swim across, across Lake Champlain? And I'd been doing some open water national championships in Lake Placid, and I was like, I could do with something a little bit longer. So I did this eight mile swim. It's three hours, 54. I thought it was super exciting. And then it got to that year, in New Year's Eve, Jeff and I were sitting around, the kids had gone to bed, and I'm like, I think I'm thinking about, getting a new goal and I'd like something to, pour my heart into, maybe for a year or two. And, along with everything else that we do. And I said, the English channel popped up and I was very strategic because it was about 11 at night. We'd had a couple of drinks and I'm like, How would you feel about that? Would you be okay with it? He's like, oh yeah, it sounds good. And I'm like, all right here. Yeah, exactly. That's all you needed to hear. Yeah. Yeah. And it took a lot longer than two years, but it was an incredible journey. Yeah. Now the English Channel, how long is that and that's a little harder than Lake Champlain? It is a little harder than Lake Champlain. No lamp praise though. So that's a bonus. So the English channel is 21 miles as the crow flies. Okay. And it is very cold water. It's got up to 700 vessels, shipping vessels, ferries. Yeah. Going across each, and by saying across it, you've got England and France, and there are shipping channels on the English side. They go in one direction. Yeah. Then there's a transition zone so that they don't collide. And then on the French side, there's another shipping lane that goes the other direction. The tides and the currents are very intense. And they generally push six hours in one direction. In six hours in the other. So when you are swimming, you are being pushed in one direction and as the tide changes pushed in another, so for most people you're doing much, much further than 21 miles. Yeah. Yeah. Depends on a faster swimmer is gonna have a straight line, A slower swimmer is gonna have a very big s shape. And then the other, challenges, with it is, the minefields of jellyfish. Wow. And then the other debris in the water Yeah. is, one, one swim. I was, entering my hand into the water and went straight through a car tire. Wow. Just, you hit so much. Yeah. Yeah. And trying to make sense of it and letting it go and moving on to that next thing Yeah. As well. Yeah. And along with having to feed, you've got to sustain your nutrition over that time. And I learned pretty early on that you can swim and vomit at the same time. Good way to keep warm. Okay. It goes down your legs. so the ships don't stop. They don't say, Hey, Charlotte's swimming this, we're gonna not, they're just doing their thing. the about the waves on those things are intense. In fact, one of the signals from the crew on the boat is this a big arm wave. So you know, it's coming, you see the boat pick up and lurch to the side, and then you feel it yourself. Wow. it is incredible. They are massive. So did you have a smaller boat following you or maybe just run through some of the logistics? Yes, absolutely. I'm always so fascinated by Yeah. How does something like that. start to finish as it even happened. So with the first step is within the preparation is getting your body Yeah. Used to sustaining cold for that long. and pretty cold year round. Yes. Yeah. You're looking at 58 to 66 Fahrenheit. Yeah. And, I don't know how many people have enjoyed some English summertime, but it's not quite like we have here. yeah. So the, the air tempera temperature is generally a little bit cooler, so you've got some different components and preparation one is cold acclimatization. It takes quite a few years to get ready for that. And that is, some of you who know me, I do go in the cold water quite a bit, and that really came from a, I grew up in glacial lakes. b the pool wasn't heated when I grew up. I didn't know any different. And, CI live in Vermont, so if I wanna live in the open water, I've gotta Get out there and do it. So starts with short bursts, a couple of minutes, and then you build up longer over time, you're not permitted to wear a wetsuit, so you don't train with a wetsuit, one cap. Earplugs, a set of goggles. You are permitted an escort boat. Okay. mine was about 45 feet long. They tend to be fishing boats, okay. Most of them. And, they kick up quite a bit of fumes. You've gotta be a certain distance from the boat'cause they move around with the swells in the ocean as well. the channel waters kick up very quickly. They are, relentless in the winds out there. And then you've got the ferry traffic, the jellyfish and the channel water is brackish. Yeah. It's like when I say that it's chalky. And it tastes like no other water that I've had before. And by saying feeding, that means that when you're out swimming, you determine for you and between your crew, how often you are going to take hydration. And, nutrition on the way over because you need something. Yeah. And you have a long line with a carabiner hook on a cup and you get it thrown at you. This is fascinating today. And then you flip up the lid of it. Yeah. Wow. And then you. You're either treading water or you're rolling onto your back if it's super rough. You are just getting doused with waves. So it's trying to take that feed in without ingesting the salt water. Yeah. Because when you swallow salt water or a jellyfish or something yeah. The jellyfish. Yeah. so the feeding is very difficult and being a leaner swimmer, I, learned that I have to take hot or warm feeds to help keep myself warm. Yeah. And a lot of people use carbohydrate feeds. My tummy doesn't handle'em so well. I had a number of attempts at the channel on my successful swim. I swam it eating buttery mashed potatoes. I had, oatmeal diluted and maple syrup in it. I had some, Soups, like packet soups that you pour water into. And when that all didn't taste good, I ate English tea biscuits and, one, one thing that I did learn, your body can take so much per hour and once you've taken too much, it just expels it. Yeah. and it comes up. But it is a real balance. And because the tides are pushing you so aggressively, if you're taking a long time to have your, or I call them my yum, yums or snacks, you're getting pushed off course. Yeah. And it can cost you hundreds and hundreds of meters. So you have to just keep your head down and swim. Yeah. Yeah. how long does it. Should it take to swim? That I feel like an average time is 14 to 15 hours to get across. Yeah. some people go that's just continuous. 3 22 hours. 22. What's the record? I believe the record is around six. Wow. six and change. Wow. Wow. For that. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. so my time was 11 hours, 34 minutes. Wow. Yeah. sorry. 43 minutes, which was, it was great. Yeah. And I didn't think about time. I thought about keeping my head down putting one stroke in front of the other. Yeah. And the crew were trying to point out different boats and things, and I wouldn't look at them. I'm like, not just keeping on going. Once I got into the French waters, I actually came into a reasonably heavy slew of jellyfish and, I've learned over the years just to pretty much suck it up. And when I get stung, I just tell myself in about 10, 15 minutes it's gonna dissipate. Yeah. You get another hit, you just take it and keep swimming. Body gets used to it. You can't, you can't change anything. Yeah. You're either gonna get out and get on the boat or you're gonna put your head down and keep going. And one of my mental strategies is to focus on something that still feels okay. And sometimes that's just my ear lobes or my hair feels good. You know what I mean? It's It can, it's, immense pain. One thing I've been fortunate to never really have is shoulder troubles, or, that's always felt pretty good. I've been really good about keeping balanced with strength training and mobility work and core strength to really help support my body across that. Yeah. But, the trip over was incredible. And putting my hand on French soil Yeah. Was just. Amazing feeling. Unbelievable. Yeah, I'm sure it was un unbelievable. Yeah. And I got reasonably seasick on the way back, but on the boat, but, it didn't matter at that point. Yeah. So it was, and then once you're done, there's a, pub over there called the White Horse where. People have swung the channel. Oh, that's amazing. Sign their name and their time and the date. And I wrote on mine, dreams Do Come True. And how many attempts? So I had five attempts and I was successful on the six. Wow. Amazing. And I had a lot of different things go on. And what I learned really was, to believe I could be better than my best. you have self doubt comes in and then you have other people who are, being supportive and kind and being like, it's just, that's not your thing. you Yeah. you need more weight, you need to eat more and you need this. And I just knew in my heart that I could do it. Yeah. And I needed to cross some things off. And that was cold water training. Yeah. And that was, Getting my feeding down. Yeah. And when it came down to it, walking down to the ramp, to the boat on that last attempt, I had tears streaming down my face. I just, I felt different. I felt calm. Yeah. I wasn't scared of it and I felt a deserved confidence. Yeah. And it was okay if I didn't make it right because What an incredible privilege. Being in taking off from England like so many people have done. Yeah. the first woman in the 1920s and in 14 hours, And I'm on the same beach and I'm getting in that water. I've got people beside me who are committed to getting me across and all those challenges and thinking of all the history of the battles of Britain, of people flying over there and crashing in and the ships that have gone down and just incredible. And so anytime I felt a wee bit sorry for myself, I reminded myself that it was a privilege, it was my choice. And that all I needed to do was wait until I ran outta water and I was gonna be in France. Yeah. you changed your mindset just enough to Yeah, and it's getting into that performance zone where all your other worries, you shelve them. Yeah. you focus on, my only job was swimming alongside the boat. You don't follow the boat, you have it to your sides. So when you breathe, you see it. And the pilot has a smiley face, like a big sticker on the boat. And I would just look at that smiley face and I'd just be like, yep. That's awesome. Yeah. Attitude is everything. yeah. So that was the channel and not all the swims have been that, that smooth. I swam into a couch swimming around Manhattan. I was bit by a shark, swimming across Catalina. And so it was a big journey to get to the channel. And the reason there's been 50 marathon swims were, they were all preparation. Yeah. Yep. and would you say for the prior five attempts, you mentioned it a little bit, but just there's little things that you learned. Definitely dialing in the feeding, things like that. Yeah. That all led up to that moment. it was huge. It was that experience of what works and what doesn't. And I think the biggest component was owning my fear of the cult. Like just understanding that a, I'm scared and it's okay in that I've got courage by facing my fear. Even if I put a toe in the water, it's a victory. It's, I'm never gonna get there unless I try. So I think that was the big thing. It was letting go of any expectations and just getting inside myself, being self resilient. And that made the huge difference because I trusted my training and, it, it really helped. Yeah. And I think you brought up a good point, but just that it was a privilege. Yeah.'cause I'll have days. I skin up the mountain a lot and it'll be, 10 below or something. But I live in a place, my, my life is a certain way that I'm able to do that. Some people aren't even able to ski, maybe they can't afford it, anything like that. So I think you bring up a great point that what somebody might view as, oh man, that sounds miserable. it is a privilege to be able to be out there and suffering in the natural world. So Yeah. But you enjoy it. It's great point. Yes, it is. and whether it's skinning up the mountain Yep. Whether it's getting that look at daybreak with the sun rising and I was I was driving over and coming down the hill. what an extraordinary place to live. Yeah. And if we. Put ourselves out there to get out and give that extra little effort to go and enjoy something, it'd be easier to say, oh, I just, can't be bothered today. But I guarantee people will appreciate it afterwards. it's so satisfying. That's true. Sure is. So that's an amazing accomplishment. I did read about the triple crown of open water swimming. So tell us about English Channel is one of those, English Channel is one. The, the other one is the Swim around Manhattan, which is now called 20 Bridges. Majestic Mount Mansfield embodies the spirit of Stowe heritage. And we're proud to present the Octagon Podcast, a true reflection of our amazing community. Stowe Living is honored to sponsor this podcast. We're helping you live your best life daily with stunning furniture, unique design, kitchenwares, thoughtful gifts sourced from around the world. Thank you Stowe for your continued support of Stowe Living and the Octagon Podcast. When it comes to luxury real estate in Stowe Trust, Meg Kaufman of Land Vests, Christie's International Real Estate. Meg Kaufman knows the market inside and out. She's been a part of the Stowe community for over 20 years. Whether you're buying or selling, Meg Kaufman offers a concierge level of service. Taylor, just for you. Backed by the power of land vests and Christie's International. She brings proven success and local insight to every transaction, luxury real estate, local expertise. Meg Kaufman and Land Vests are the team you want on your side. Because you go under 20 bridges, it's 28 miles. Wow. And it's, a lot. Faster time-wise than the channel because there are incredibly aggressive incoming and outgoing tide currents. So on that one, you start down in Battery park. Yeah. And you're the base of the Hudson. And then you're going, flying up the East River right. To an area called Hells Gate. And it's a very confused, tough wee bit of water. It splits into the Harlem, you go up around the Harlem and then you come down the Hudson. with the, with the current. With the current. With the current, okay. if you, if you don't have the speed, you are not going to get through Hal's gate. Okay. And up into Harlem's, quite benign water. But it's rather dirty that the year that, I did two years, one year unsuccessfully, the second year successfully. There we'd had, A major tropical storm and the sewer system overflowed. Oh, that can't be nice. And so the organizer that can't be good got us all together for the evening before for the race meeting, said, look, this is what's going on. And you can choose to swim or not to swim. These are the hazards. And we highly recommend that you take a Cipro before you get in, some medication antibiotics to kill stuff or immediately when you get out. And, or both. Or both. Yes. And the water was just Wow. Hideous. Yeah. What you'd expect. Probably it was hideous and wow. We, that's dedication. Yeah. There was about 12 of us. I was not excited about the dirty water, but growing up in New Zealand, come from a little island, spent a lot of my, formative years in bare feet running around the beach, the streets going to school. One of my. When are you ever going to see the Statue of Liberty, let alone swim past it? Yeah, totally. Yeah. What an iconic thing. Pretty cool. I'm like, I'm going to Sightsee New York City from the water. Yeah. From like a fish eye view. But I thought it was so cool. That's cool. So they walked us off the, piers and if you've ever been down to some of the piers, where it pulls in a lot of the garbage and stuff Collects in there. Yeah. It's are, here we go. Are we condoms in the water? Yeah. Old trash. And it was, you don't want to take that water. And it was not good. Yeah. Yeah. it was a really challenging swim to the end of the swim, got around the island, which was super cool and we had to cut in towards, at the same start point into a little, enclove and The Hudson, the, I don't know if you've looked at the Hudson and that water moves. It's a little bit hard. Yeah. It's just incredible. And so I'm coming down the Hudson and I can see where I need to turn in and I've got some anxiety because if I miss that turn, it's me and the Staten Island ferry are gonna be best buddies. And I'm like, unless I get to, to finish, my swim's not complete. So I'm coming down there, I'm going, I'm bellying up to the sea wall stroke after stroke. And one thing I've learned is you're never there till you touch. So I'm never complacent swimming down. And then I see this object and I'm gaining on it. It's quite big. And I'm like, what is that? And as I got closer, I realized it was a couch. And I'm like, that's okay, as long as it doesn't. Interfere with me cutting into, can you take a break? Sit on the couch? yeah. And I'm like,'cause I gotta make a pretty hard cut and if I miss it, I'm out. Yeah. And so I'm maneuvering myself, I'm stroking towards this couch. And it's like I had Velcro, it was just gravitating to me. So I go to make my turn and these are, official, this was a race, this official, they're making sure you can't have any Yeah. Contact, you can't assistance with anything. Assistance. Yeah. And so as I'm making the turn, one of the couch cushions comes with me and now I'm now swimming into the finish and the official's Hey, no flotation assistance. And I'm like, dude, it's a couch. I'm like, it's, I can't get out. It's like stuck to me and it always cracks me up. And then anytime I tell that story, people, all they wanna know is, what color was the couch? And I'm like, it was Hudson Blue, which means brown. yeah. But should have taken it home. Put it in a shadow box, you. that's a great story. That's intense. Yeah, it was pretty funny. So that's the second part of the Triple Crown. So that's the second part. And then the third part is out in California, and it's from Catalina Island and around 20 plus miles from Catalina Island to the coast of California. The swim was originated by. Wrigley, the big Wrigley Giant. And he saw the big ticket tape parade from Gertrude, Italy, who was the first woman to swim the English Channel. And when she arrived home in New York City, it was the biggest event ever that people had come out to support. And he's I'd like to get in on that. And he created this race with a major prize and all these people traveled out to swim across this channel, which is how it started. Yeah. it's actually called the St. Pedro Channel Motor out across the channel, and then you start the swim between 11 and midnight, slide off the boat. You swim into Catalina Island, you have to clear the water, just like the English channel. You have to swim in, clear the water. once you start. Putting one part of your body in the water, they sound the horn and your swim begins. And so I had got off the escort boat again, a larger boat, and the, one of the crew had said, Hey, you gotta swim under a swim boy that goes around the beach at the island. He said, just be careful not to cut yourself.'cause there's a lot of kelp and rocks and get out. And it's midnight. And it's midnight. So they have lights out, dark, lights out, dark, no lights. And and cold ca California's that cold water. It is, yeah. It is chilly. So I swim in there and I'm like, when you tell yourself not to do something, it's not good. So I'm swimming and I'm like, okay, I gotta get to the island. they're shining a spotlight on the boy line. I go under it, can I get tangled in it? I'm wriggling myself around. It's maybe a hundred, 150 meters in to swim in. And then I'm like. I felt this on my knee and I'm like, oh, that's not good. And then I'm like, oh, okay. So out to the island, pull myself out, rub my knee a little bit, get in the water and I forget about it. So I swim under the boy line out to the boat. And I have, a support kayaker and a crew, Cynthia Needham, who is a local here in town and was an amazing, support over many years. And she was kayaking and crewing on this particular swim. So there was a kayak in the water with the boat, what that was called, the out rider for the first hour of Marathon Swim. I swim straight, so I don't have any feed. I'm following along the boat and it was within that first hour, I'm cruising through the water and. Something hit me with such force that it shunted my body sideways. It felt like I'd been hit by a train and it was sharp, like it was a four by two worth nails in it, and it just smacked the side of my body. And at that point I was like, what the, if I'd like to say, I was like, oh, what was that? But it was not, yeah, there was one word that came to my mind. Yeah. Yeah. And my mind, I trained so hard to complete. My arms kept going forwards, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna focus on what doesn't hurt my hip was throbbing and my brain wanted to know what it was like. I need to make sense of this. So I'm continuing to swim and I'm like, you know what? I bet I hit the boat. That's a good explanation, right? So I take a site and the boats and a swell way off to the side. Yeah. It's not anywhere near me. Wasn't the boat. It was not the boat. So I ruled that out and then I. Take a breath to my right. See where the kayak is. Thought, sometimes I misbehave in the water. I could have been smacked by the paddle. warranted was not that, Cynthia was not right by me. Close, but not enough to hit me. So I'm like, oh, okay, it could have been a, yeah, it fallen tree that happens. And I'm like, I'm in a couple hundred foot of water. And then I settled on the fact that it was an upside down mutant jellyfish that had just hit me on the side. And I was like, okay, that works. And so I kept swimming on and swam for 11 hours and then ended up getting pulled from the swim for hypothermia, a mile from Catalina, from the California coast. Oh wow. Got pulled in the boat and I was pretty feeling pretty down. disappointed. Seasick. Hypothermic and cold and. The crew stripped my suit off, got sweatpants on warm clothes. We motor to the dock, loaded the car, we get in the back of the car and we are driving towards where we're staying and I'm whittling around. And if you've done a bigger stand up and you are gonna ski down or you've done a big ride or something that you've really extended yourself, everything in your body aches, it can, it's not like it's all, it's not like injury, it's just oh, I've done stuff. And I had that feeling in my body, but my hip was particularly just throbbing and I couldn't get comfortable. I felt like I was out of alignment. And so I'm sliding around in the backseat and my sweatpants slipped down on my right side. And I looked down and I reached forward to, Cynthia, and I'm like, Hey, I've got holes in me. And she's You are out of it. you've been up for too long, you know you're dehydrated, delirious, hypothermic. Just settle down. We are tied. Two, can we pipe down? And then I'm like, oh, I think, I think I've got something sticking out of one. Wow. And then, so I and I pull this. Little tooth come on outta my hip. No way. And I kinda lean forward in the car and I'm like, Hey, does this look like a tooth to you? And we just start roaring with laughter.'cause compared to where we've been, it's at least of our problems right now. And we kinda get back to where we are staying. Cynthia's ready for a beer well deserved. I gotta to shower off'cause you always, one thing I didn't tell you about the marathon swimming, you have grease. On you to help prevent chafing? Yeah, so I've got all sorts of segger on my body. So I go to wash this stuff off and I tend around my hip and I look down and there's just this mouth mark bruise and these puncture holes, unbeliev. So I come out and I walk out and I forgot the towel around me and I say, Cynthia, does this look like a mouth mark? And we just start roaring laughter right at that point. So we did go to the Manhattan Beach Aquarium the next day and went in and took what we had and showed her the mark and she figured. Five to six foot shark. Yeah. Way. And probably mistaken identity. the poor thing must have been awfully disappointed'cause he hit my hip. Yeah. and I'm quite lean. He must have been like, yeah, he's all the seal bl Yeah. Tooth goes, that's not the meal they were expecting. Goes back down to his shark buddies and say, I just hit something with titanium. They're all laughing, pointing their fins at him saying, and wow. That's incredible. and I I went to the doctor that's amazing, was some marine bites, who to be careful about bacteria. So I go to the urgent care here. He was great. I really enjoyed great doctor. And he said, look, I've got some advice for you Charlotte. And he said, I said, what? He said, it's really important medical advice. He said, it's called badin. Ping pong. yeah. Paddle ball. Yeah. Yeah. He's you might wanna try something else. Yeah. Yeah. So that was a Catalina. I went back the next year and probably, I think one of the big tests of mental strength was sitting on the back of that boat. I'm sure. Getting in that same water, swimming that first hour. Yeah. And completing that swim. Nice. And it was amazing. Awesome. Nice job. Nice. Congrat. Wow. That's great stories. Amazing story. Awesome. we're just gonna switch gears a little bit. Yeah. For sure. And, talk about your time in Stowe and the swimming hole. You've been the executive director of the swimming hall for. Quite some time. what's a day in the life like in a position like that? I'm sure it's dynamics stuff going on. Yeah. Dynamic. Yeah. there's a lot of stuff going on. we've got, two pools. We have a 257,000 gallon Olympic eight lane lap pool. And so things start early in the morning with our masters swim group. sometimes people think masters is 40 years and up, but it's, 18 years and up anyone who's can swim a lap of the pool and wants to improve their swimming and. Join a community. And so that starts early in the morning. our fitness areas are also open. Then we open at six and we wrap up around eight in the evening, later in the day. Kids classes, personal training, private swim lessons, yoga classes. Yeah. and then, we've got an incredible membership. our focus is providing like crystal clear water. We're super. Intense about having really amazing crystal clear sanitized pools and a really clean, welcoming facility and that takes the whole team working together and doing it. Yeah. So you know, the day comes in many forms. it might be coaching, might be supporting computer work and signups and groups. And we've got an incredible team of managers. Jeremy Bradley has been with the swimming hall since Yeah, long time. Yeah. Yeah. Late 2006, 2007. Wow. He's aquatics manager, head coach, everything pools. And we've got a USA swim team, which is incredible for a town, likesto. Wow. 40 kids that come after school. That's great practice. Some of them race. And some of them are, it's just that extra fitness for other activities. And then Sean Hunt's, also been a long time team member. He's our fitness manager. Yep. And, all things personal training. we've got 40, 45 pieces of equipment. Yeah. lots of cardio and strength and, things have moved away from traditional strength equipment, although that's still very relevant to more functional type training. And, where industry trends used to be all about, fitness in the old days was aesthetics, high performance. And now it's longevity based. Remaining active. Yeah. Having a sharp mind, pain free and being able to be functional so you can skin up. The mountain, you can carry groceries, you can get in and out of the car. And I think the cool thing about the swimming hole is it's for all ages. our youngest members month old, we've got people in their nineties. yeah. so the day is very dynamic in that there's, fitness components. There's aquatic pun components. first and foremost there's safety and then there's bringing community together. we partner with Copley Woodlands and they bring a shuttle over to bring people into EQU classes. Yeah, that's right. And we partner with. green Mountain Adapted Sports, Helping access to everybody, and we offer financial aid to help families in need get in there. So it's really a wonderful community hub And I love it with every I can tell of my soul. I just adore it. do you still train swimming and coach swimming? Are you active in that still? I do. I, I coach there since 2002. Yeah. And, I coach one day a week regularly. Okay. I teach one class a day regularly. I have a couple of clients that I still work with. I still teach quite a bit of swimming. Yeah. particularly the high performance and I'm really passionate about the adult learn to swim. So it's one end at the spectrum. So adult learned to swim. Adult learn to swim. So fearful swimmer never done it before. Embarrassed about not knowing. I get a rush. I Maybe we should do that. Yeah. I'm thinking maybe we train for the English channel. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. You one in front the other. Don't train us. Catalina's. First time. Yeah. One of you can be shark fake. So we've got a really, incredible. Adult Learn to Swim program that we started in 2015, where we actually bring those to the community free for members and non-members. That's great. We do some fundraising for that, which is in incredible. So a little bit of everything. I don't love sitting down in a chair all day, so I do try and be on my feet in the morning and then get to some of that administrative stuff later on in the day. Yeah. Yeah. And then I like connecting with our members. You see what's, what's going on. It's what's working, what's not, and how they're feeling. So I have to ask, do you still have water polo? We don't, yeah, we don't. Water polo. Okay. My, my father dragged me to water polo, I think when I was in high school, and, I grew up, I played hockey and soccer and tennis and skiing. I, I've never been so tired, exhausted. Oh. Than playing water polo. Water polo. Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. Did you ever play, I feel like you'd be really, you know what I played under, I played underwater hockey. tell me my, in college, I, I've never heard of that with that, like a heavy ball that's on the bottom. It's you have a special P for the bottom. Yeah. And it's a handheld, stick, which is, probably from your wow elbow to your wrist, and you are, you're diving down and you're pushing that. So it was, I never heard of that. Bring that back. It was a credible yeah. Bring that back. Yeah. Yeah. And they actually got a, I could've gone pro if I'd known about that. Yeah. I've got a really good friend who actually also plays underwater rugby. How about that? Yeah. Oh my God. It's gotta be brilliant. Is that mainly in New Zealand or No, worldwide. All around. Yeah. Yeah, like ice swimming. There's a lot of incredible sports out there. I know what I'm Googling later. I'm fascinated. That's amazing. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, no, I did, my father dragged me to water polo, so I had to ask, if that was still going on at the swimming hole. Yeah. That's funny. What other sports do you do outside? Do you, are you still skiing? I'm still skiing, yeah. I love skiing. Yeah. I really enjoy it. Yeah. I love skiing. So I get up there when I can, normally an afternoon thing because I'm over at the swimming hole earlier in the morning. Yeah. So I haven't joined the skinning crew yet, but maybe one day. Oh yeah. I do going uphill, so that would be good. We'll see you next winter. Yeah, for sure. And I, I enjoy running. I like trail running a lot. I did a lot of mountain biking when I first moved to town and I really enjoyed tennis. Yeah. I was at the tennis club for quite a few years. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And when I started training for the channel, I, something had to go. Yeah, of course. And I couldn't sustain the time of it. Yeah. Yeah. one thing about when you are really working to get the top possible level in your sport, you have to do everything in that. Yeah. it's a lot of sacrifice. You are not going to get there part-time on something. Yeah, totally. You gotta be all in. Yeah. we'll get you back on the court. yeah, for sure. are you still competing at all or doing any. adventure swims. I am. I, went to the World Ice Swimming Championships in January in Italy. I represented New Zealand with my daughter. And, luckily it was one mile, one a mile and a half from a mountain resort, and we actually got to go and she rides and I ski. So we did that amongst our competition, but, so that was amazing. I set, three world records there, which is good one for the kilometer. It was 33 degrees Fahrenheit, a kilometer swim, no wetsuit. and yeah, that, that was amazing. Were their icebergs floating around? They, yeah, they were, they had to. you're absolutely right. They had to delay the start by 30 minutes each day. They had to cut the ice and by the end of the event there was a massive pile of slices of ice. We always, we thought it was funny. We lay on them for photos and so the worst was swimming at eight 30 in the morning because you knew it was probably 32 or below. Yeah. And then once the sun came out, it was a little bit better. But that the ice swimming is, that's a whole other level of mental street. how long are these races? Like how long are you in this water? 50 meters to a K. My kilometer was just under 16 minutes. Yeah, that's a long time. It was the, in cold water. It was, my race was at night. So you got night air? Yeah. 33 degrees. I'm just, yeah. What's fosters. What's foster's temperature and you jump in this, foster swimming hall fifth 45. I'd have to ask Charlotte. I don't know. what do you think? Yeah. Low, but 12 degrees less than that. we have more under the hood than we think we can. Yeah. Like whatever. Totally agree. whatever, if you are biking or walking or whatever you are working towards, there is 10% more Yep. Than you are all out is possible. Yeah. Yep. And you keep digging deeper to get Right. Keep going. Totally agree. That's, yep. Just long gradual improvements. Yeah. yeah, that, that was my, that was my most recent thing. It was a real blast. It was really hard. I was pretty happy when that was finished. Let's talk about some Vermont swimming spots. Oh yeah. what's some of your favorite places to swim in? in Northern Vermont or really anywhere. Okay. I absolutely adore Green River. Green Rivers. Yes. It is a hidden gem. Yep. There's some great courses out there. It is amazing. Yeah. The loons are incredible. Yeah. Love it. Good community out there. Really nice. No couches in the water. No couches that I've come across, although I did, a couple of years ago I swim back. Maybe a moose, maybe. Do you ever see a moose? Not a moose. I did see a deer, unfortunately frozen into the ice one time, but I was swimming into the boat ramp one day and probably about 10 foot deep. And I saw a really nice reclining chair in the water, so I dove down. Picked that up. Dragged it out. Yeah. And I didn't take it home. I left it there for someone to pick up'cause I figured it was there, sunglasses, things like that. I really love Lake Man from my go. Yeah, I swim up there a lot. Yeah, that's half Canada, right? Half Canada. So it's a real kick swimming to another country. yeah. That is. You just swim with your passport. sometimes I have swam without it and, and had to talk to the immigration officials, it was, yeah. Are they in the water? I get, I did get pulled off. Cracking you down off. they do have boats up there. Yeah, there's has been helicopter surveillance. But there was one night that I did go across the border and they were questioning me on, do you often swim at 2:00 AM with just a bathing suit cap and goggles and no identification. I'm like. Oh yeah, sometimes I do, actually I do. Yeah. I, I do. but was that New Zealand accent? Accent, yeah. And yeah, iu, I, yeah. And so I, they did let me back into the country, which was good. Yeah. Yeah. The Canadians let me out and the US let me back in, which was great. But they do have a pretty good record on me over there. They know that I go over across quite a bit, a Waterbury reservoir. I particularly like when it's, cold, like when the boat traffic and stuff's gone. Yeah. That blush Hill boat launch that's a good, is really good. That's to go in and do some swimming off there. It's actually a good time to go. There is, yeah. When it does get cold, less boats a hidden gem. If no one's been is Crystal Lake. Yeah, I've been there. Incredible. Where's that beautiful boat? Both East Kingdom, Northeast Kingdom, Barton Net, Barton and Glover. And then, I'd say in the top three is Lake Willoughby. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's a beautiful spot. I did, Pisca. I've hiked Pisca. Incredible. That's New Zealand right? Yes. Now coming right water. Yes. On f it's calm up, up by ice. Incredibly deep. Unbelievable. It is. And it's underutilized. It's busier now. the last couple of years it's got busier, but it is fantastic. But, anywhere that I go, I do like to, I research it pretty well. Check out the shoreline. I'll check in with locals to just find out Anything I need to know. Yeah. And, take a swim, float, you're identifiable. If there's boats around, I make sure I've got someone with me in a kayak. Yeah. You don't wanna do that to a boater and you don't wanna get hit. All do we do some rapid fire questions? Woo. I fire, let's go. You're in the hot seat. Woo. I love it. Let's do a little rapid fire question. All right. Preferred water temperature, arctic cold or tropical? Warm. I'm gonna get a tropical warm, no. Believe it. Oh, that's a surprise. I would've sought the other. Yeah, I'm thrown off by that. You're welcome. Do what I can. Swimming into a bunch of jellyfish or swimming into a super strong current during a competition. Oh, I'll take the current right. Lake or Ocean Lake. I'm surprised by that too. I know. That's changed. Yeah, definitely. Sunrise Swim or Sunset Swim. Sunrise Swim. Unbeatable. Yep. Solo Swim or Team Relay. That's a really tough one. solo swim training in the pool or training outside. Oh, I knew you'd ask that one. Yes. training outside. Yep. Snorkeling or scuba diving. None of the above. Ah, no. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna, you don't wanna see what's down there. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go snorkeling. Probably don't wanna see what's down there. Ice bath or hot tub recovery. Ice bath. Yep. Foster swimming hole here in Stowe or a day at the Jake Peak Waterpark. Fosters, yeah. New Zealand Beach Swim or Vermont Lake Swim. That is so incredibly tough. I'm going to go Vermont Lake. Swim on that. Wow. Alright. Vermont's got incredible lakes. Yeah, sure does. Favorite New Zealand animal? Kiwi or Penguin? Oh Penguin. The beach where I grew up. Wildlife penguins like you are. They're right there with you. Yeah. Nice. Cool. Yeah. Little blues, cool animals. Incredible. I went to Milford Sound. Oh, love. We did go New Zealand and we saw Penguin there, so I did see one New Zealand preference. South Island or North Island? South Island. Favorite New Zealand food? Rack of Lamb or meat pie. Rack of lamb. All right, all good one. If you'd said, if you'd said ice cream, I would've said ice cream. I didn't know New Zealand was known for ice cream. Incredible ice cream. Okay. Yeah. Credible ice cream. Yeah. There you go. Yeah, that's cool. what would you say is your hope for STO in the next five to 10 years? My hope for STO is that the incredible access for people to enjoy. Nature remains. That being able to appreciate that view and access it, whether it's for a walk or a hike or a bike. I think STOs done a really great job of opening up biking trails. For people of all ages and abilities to access not just elite or top and shape athletes. And I, I think that there's really something for everyone here and I would just love to seeto, hold on to that natural beauty. It's like driving down to your house and looking at that view is incredible. So whether someone's walking on it or whether there's a pull off park, sit seating area that people can enjoy, I think it's vital. Yeah, that's a good point. That's awesome. Good point. Yeah.'cause there, there are a lot of just great access points. I think ST and Trust has done a great job. Job. Yeah. There's easy hike. Exactly. Yep. Doesn't have to be anything extreme. just anybody that wants to get outside. And I think STOs really done an incredible job of documenting and showing people how to access those, the signage. I think it's been really good. I totally agree. and when I go to other towns, I notice that yes, there's no trail heads or signs or benches, maps even. Yeah. Maps you just don't know about it. Yeah. Yeah. that's all it takes is just having that, that trailhead and that information and sign to get out in the woods. I think someone driving through for a day or here for a week should be able to easily access those, find out where they are, and not have to have that local conversation. Yep. Yep. Yep. Alright, Charlotte, that was an awesome run through. We do end all of our episodes with one question. If Stow did not exist, where would you live? I would live in the upper malborough area of New Zealand. Okay. Alright. Yeah, we haven't heard that before. Yes, it's, that's a first, it's so where is that? It's Marlborough is the top of the South Island incredible vineyards. It's coastal, it's got inland mountains as well. There's lake access and I think it's the best of, both worlds. Yeah. otherwise I'd be traveling south to the ocean and also being somewhere else in Vermont by the lake. But I think if I had to pick one place, that would be it. That's awesome. Sounds amazing. Awesome. Alright, thank you so much Charlotte. Thank you Charlotte. That was great. Thank you so much for having me. It has been great chatting. That was awesome. Thank you. Hope you enjoyed that episode of the Octagon Podcast. Remember to like us on Instagram and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. See you next time.