#30: George Petit: World Class Musician and Founder of Stowe Jazz Festival

To ring in the 30th episode at The Octagon we had George Petit join us in the studio. George is a jazz guitarist, a composer, an educator… and the force behind the Stowe Jazz Festival — happening this July which brings world class Jazz musicians to our community. George Petit has been a working musician, composer, arranger, engineer and producer for the better part of 37 years, playing his very first gig at the age of 13 in a West-end, London Pub...but even before that, he performed as a young musician at Carnegie Hall and on Broadway. Music is his passion and primary focus for his entire life. Starting piano lessons at age 5, Petit has enjoyed many years leading groups and performing on guitar and bass in a variety of genres and musical situations all over the world. Over the years, Petit has performed and played with many of the top musicians in the world. In addition, George has composed music for film, television and radio.

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This episode of the Octagon is sponsored in part by archery close. Hey, this is Chris and Taste from Archery Clothes, your go-to boutique. For men's and women's fashion, we carry a curated selection of clothing, footwear, and gifts from unique and emerging brands. We're proud to sponsor the Octagon and even prouder to be local business owners here in Stowe. We love how the Octagon captures the history and characters of this incredible town. After coming off the slopes or the trails, stop by archery close. Located at 1650 Mountain Road in Stowe. Open seven days a week, or always open online@archeryclose.com. Welcome listeners to the Octagon Podcast, where we explore the stories, people, and places that make St. Stove Vermont so legendary. I'm your host, Mike Carey, joined by my co-host Ted Thorndyke. We are excited to introduce our guest today, George Petit. George is a jazz guitarist, composer, educator, and the force behind the STO Jazz Festival happening this July, which brings world class jazz musicians to our Stowe community. George has been a working musician, composer, arranger, engineer, and producer for the better part of 37 years, playing his very first gig at the age of 13 and a West End London Pub. But even before that, he performed as a young musician at Carnegie Hall and on Broadway. Music is his passion and primary focus for his life. Starting piano lessons at age five. George has enjoyed many years leading groups and performing on guitar and bass in a variety of genres and musical situations all over the world. Over the years, George has performed and played with many of the top musicians in the world. In addition, George has composed music for film, TV, and radio. Welcome George. great to be here, guys. I was about to say I'm sorry, Senator, but I don't recall the conversation, but I think that's overused these days. Yeah. Good to be here. Yeah. Now welcome. So let's dive right in. How did you first get into music? Was the first instrument you played, like a recorder in No, in elementary school, like three blind mice like myself, I should have used that Senator line, the fifth amendment line. I think when I was five and my brother who was two years older was seven. I think my parents wanted to kick us outta the house as much as possible, so they put us in music school. And this was in New York. so I guess that was about 1964 or 65. And, they also put us in, finger painting school and stuff after school just to get rid of us. and, music stuck. My brother is a phenomenal keyboard player and composer as well. Lives in South Florida, as I said before. but I started playing piano and immediately gave it up. My brother is a pianist and I immediately gave that up and started just searching around for instruments to play. I played, banjo for a minute. then realizing the sound of the banjo was glad it was only a minute, sorry to anybody out there. and then moved on to, trumpet, but I fell, I. And broke my front tooth, every time I tried to play trumpet, I would bleed. So that wasn't gonna, anyway, so I started looking around for something else to play and my brother being, older and larger and a pianist decided he wanted to start playing jazz at that point, and blues at that point, and didn't want to play bass with his left hand. So I was about to start, guitar and he said, no, you're gonna play bass. And I said, no, I really want to play guitar. And he had, he showed me his fist and I started playing bass. so visited my grandparents in Florida and we went to a, flea market called the Swap Shop in Lauderdale. And, there was a$60 Japanese tule base that my brother, convinced my grandfather to buy for me. And at that point I started playing bass and, Yeah. And I did that Carnegie Hall thing as a soprano in a, New York choir. and then did a bunch of Broadway stuff also as a singer, mostly classical. My family moved to England when I was just past 10 years old. and, my brother and I used to play every night, in the living room kind of thing. And then all of a sudden he and a local American guy in London started a band, that had a bass player, a guy named Buck Gray, Doug Gray, and my brother got him kicked outta the band so I could join the band. and again, yeah, I started playing on the London Pub circuit with this Alman Brothers cover band. Oh, awesome. when I was, playing electric bass, when I was 13, 14 years old and got smuggled into these bars at night and would play a set and then I. They would take us out, and stand in the alley until the second set, and then they'd pull me back in the bar. And, so I was, I guess 13 and a half. My brother was about 16, and the other guys were 17 and 18. So I started playing, I'm considered a jazz guitar player, which always cracks me up because I play a lot of jazz. But jazz, I started when I was about, I guess 18 or 19, so all the years before that. And now as well, I. I play, rock and roll bass or reggae guitar. I was in a Jamaican reggae band as the only Nonja Jamaican for three years. And I guess a couple years ago, some local guitar players here in Stoke. just before COVID, one of them called me up and said, we're doing this, hang on the front porch, playing some Eagles, and Neil Young, you don't want to come and play, do that. I was like, oh man. Yeah, I do. Is there beer? Yeah. Damn I do. it's all just music. so that's how I started. and so I've been playing music, professionally, if you wanna call that since, and I'm 65 now, so we're about 50 years. Wow. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. so you talk about, once you hit 18. You really started doing the jazz. Yeah. what led to that? tell us about that process. Two things actually. Thanks Ted for asking two things. And one of them, is a recent kind of, sad thing, but my brother and I also went to the same college. We went to Vassar and he's being two years older than I am. when I was still in London and my brother had split and moved back to the United States, And my friend Neil, Brooks called me and said, we're, I'm going to hear this guy Joe pass play solo jazz guitar at Ronnie Scott's Club in Soho in London. Do you want to go? And I was like, yeah, whatever. let's go. see the thing. Back then, there was no drinking age. So I could have a pint of beer at 15, 16 years old. No one would blink. Yeah. And I think that was the impetus for the entire thing. So anyway, we went to hear, Joe Pass play at Ronnie Scotts, and he played solo guitar. He just released a record, I think it was called, virtuoso. And he played all the Beatles tunes solo. And I Cool. Walked outta there, interested, mesmerized, so to speak. yeah, then I've, the real turning point was I visited my brother at college and, just to sleep on his couch, visiting. And, a couple of days after I got there, he said, we're gonna go listen to this guy play guitar by the name of, drew Zing. And I said, yeah, okay. and went to this basement rehearsal and there's this tall guy playing a Fender Stratocaster. And, three days later I sold my bass and bought a Fender Stratocaster. totally the inspiration of why, and I still play a lot of bass and record a lot of bass on two records I'm doing now for clients, but this guy was my inspiration. Absolutely. And I played with him through college and then New York after that and in LA and, and all these things we did throughout my twenties and into my thirties. And, about four weeks ago I found out that he'd passed, and he was the musical director for Steely Dan. Oh, wow. And B Scaggs and Michael McDonald and Aretha Franklin. And we'd always been touch and I produced his first record that had Michael McDonald and B Scaggs and all these people on it. and, so in a week and a half, I'm going down to New York and, there was a group put together that Drew was a part of. and he was like my musical brother, decades of hanging together and going to C-N-R-B-Q and all the rest of this stuff. so they asked me to take his chair for this gig. which at first was, not only scary because of his level of his playing, but also it didn't feel right until I spoke with some members of the group and they said, you knew Drew forever and we all played together. These were friends in New York and they're like, the wrecking crew in New York, these guys, they're all crazy. Wow. so after a few days of thought, I said, yeah, so I'm going down to play with a bunch of Steely Dan alumni and stuff in a week or so. And, on the one hand it scares the out of me and on the other hand it's like, yeah, I should be doing this'cause of that association. So Drew Zing, I think was okay, was the to do squirrel, to circle back. Drew Zing was the real reason that I started doing that and have been ever since. Got it. So I would guess I was. just turned 17 or 16 or something like that. You finally got the guitar after your brother had Oh, yeah. and I still the pissed. Yeah. what are you gonna do? He's bigger than me and, he's your big brothers. Took a little while, but you Yeah. Made it happen. you're gonna play bass. Okay. Mike? Yeah. or I'm gonna hit you basically. Yeah. Yeah. So and Did you transition to jazz and then just focused on jazz? Or were you still playing? No, I was So you were doing it all? I was playing when I started playing six strings instead of four. I, again, I'm, I, bass is my first electric instrument and I play it constantly, but I'm known in this area as a guitar player that predominantly does jazz. Although, my groups don't necessarily do that. Just jazz. Yeah. It's just you wanna play a Clapton tune fine. or Bob Marley, whatever it happens to be. And if you're listening Mr. Henderson, yes. I play reggae and I play ska, gimme a break. but bottom line is, I love playing it all. And I think in those days I didn't start learning jazz. I was playing what Drew was playing, which was, a lot of Steely Dan stuff. A lot of rhythm and blues, a lot of blues on guitar. A lot of funk as well on guitar. I remember actually, After college, I was hanging with Drew in New York, years after. And I said, what would something to the effect of, what would be your musical dream? And he said, I'd love to play with Steely Dan. But they broke up and then in 93 they got to get back together and they hired him as their musical director and guitar player. Wow. And I remember seeing him at the Garden in 93 and just getting my mind blown, Yeah. So that was a sweet thing. and were you in all different bands or did you have some kind of main bands that you were in back then? Back then? We had a group in college with Drew and my brother and a drummer named Bill Schlosser, and it was called The Cubists because basically we, we took all of this music and screwed around with it and made it visually very different. and then after college I was in a power trio, acid rock trio in New York, playing in the rock clubs playing bass called Initial Shock. and that moved into another very heavy rock band called Splinters. And then I started a group with my brother that was more of a jazz thing, called Top Shelf. And we played in the jazz clubs in New York City through the eighties. and other spinoffs. I I played, in a reggae band where I was the only guy not from Jamaica. Yeah. that was the Trevor James band, and that was like a seven or eight piece. their groove, their rhythm was in absolutely incredible. And then you gotta look this up on Spotify. I bet. I don't know. I don't know if it's even around anymore. Sounds pretty good. they would just point to me and go and Trevor, the leader would go, okay, now solo, use solo now in the middle of gig. So we would play at these, cultural centers all over northern New York state. Yeah. and then I was, what were you playing in that band? Guitar. Guitar, yeah. Six string guitar, playing guitar solos and then just hanging with the guys and There were SLIs involved. I would imagine a couple of'em. and then I was in a weird band that was a spinoff of the village people. The one, the construction worker, the village people, David Hodo hired me, to go on star search with him in the first year of Star Search in a band called Kid Danger in the Skirts. And we won Star search in the first season. Oh, wow. Which was totally bizarre. And hanging with Freddie Mercury and all these people in, in rehearsals. Yeah. So a lot of weird stuff over the years. Yeah. that's cool. Yeah. Stories. Yeah. So obviously you mentioned Drew. as you look back and maybe even today, who else really influenced you? Just your personally or generally speaking personally, music and, just your passion for it. I'm, I listen to everything and anything. and as a lifelong musician, you steal from everyone. Yeah. And then hopefully people. Do the same to you? Or, I have all these influences, so I'll go to a gig these days playing guitar and someone will say, I hear a lot of Larry Carlton, or I'll hear a lot of, of Drew Zing or whatever, or Clapton when, if I'm playing blues. And my answer is, thank you. I think it's all in there. Yep. And then there's classical players, that influence me and horn players and jazz players. it's hard to really, pinpoint one or one or five because there's so many, I'm just mentioning Larry Carlton and Lee Riau and Eric Clapton and Drew Zing and Elvis Costello. And you name it, but that's probably the cool thing about music, right? Yeah. And it never stops. Yeah, exactly. because of the jazz festival. I'm constantly listening to who's out there now. Guitar players or horn players or whatever. And there's this whole new school, not very new, just after nine 11 there was a lot of music coming out in New York City that was full of angst obviously because of what was going on. And there was a lot of composition of that was very full of notes and very angular in its harmony. And I caught it. I started calling it math jazz in New York'cause it wasn't very melodic, but it was very, involved in a lot in pyrotechnics, in jazz. And there was a guy named Nera Felder who came out and Kurt Rosen. Winkle and Metheny was during, before that period and very lyrical. But just yesterday I was researching some, guitar players in. In Europe that are phenomenal in the jazz, genre and that kind of spinoff thing. Yeah. And there's la gay Lund who's killer and Jesse Von ruler, and they're all from Europe and just killing it, We all think that in the United States we own that thing, and I'll tell you right now, we do not. Yeah. And, the STO Jazz Festival, what we try to do, and what I try to do booking that is bring in musicians, especially a lot of, we had eight Grammy winners I think it was at the festival last year. So I try to bring in musicians that are in the many sub genres of jazz from all over the world.'cause their cultures all, impact what they think jazz is. So we're all kind of communicating in the same language, but their cultures impose whatever that is on jazz. So there's Brazilians or Cubans or people from Peru or Canada or Oregon, that are playing it different. Yeah. that's, we really cool. We wanna show that. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. That's fun. so you're playing all these different music styles, different bands. You've also done your own studio, you've Yeah. Produced albums. You've really stitched together a lot of different things in music. Has it come naturally? Do people reach out to you? once you get known in the circle, is it, Hey, I, I moved back up here after being away for a while, for a number of years. I was first here in 87 when I moved up and started teaching skiing and playing in Pure Pressure, which is now the grip of funk band. Okay. I played in that for. About 10 years and other, I think grew up to 30 bands now. Oh God. It's just, it's amazing. It never ends. Awesome. So you went New York City to sto. You moved to Stowe. when I was in New York, in 80, 85, 86, I produced a record, for Sony, Columbia Records called, black Pearl for some famous jazz players, Donald Harrison, Terrence Blanchard. And that went on to win record of the year. and I, that gave me a, an opportunity to get outta New York. So I was going to Santa Barbara and drove north in a U-Haul. So I was 28, I drove north in a U-Haul to see Stowe before I took the left turn right on 80, I guess it was, to get out. And I came here in November and it was high foliage season and gorgeous. And I checked into the OW Motel and literally three days later had a job teaching skiing. Had a little house that was half built on Molten Lane and a trashed Jeep. And I called my buddy Jerry in Santa Barbara. He's like, where are you? Iowa or something. I said, no, I'm still in stone. I'm not coming. So I stayed here 11 years at that point. Wow. Then met my wife here and we moved back to New York and I came back eight years ago. Got it. and I started working in studios, sweeping the floor and being an intern in 78 because I was interested in how these groups were making these sounds. and then one job in studios led to others, and that's a big passion. I would say that my primary instrument is the recording studio and not any of the instruments I play. So I've got about 150 something plus records out as an engineer, producer, a lot of jazz, rock and roll, whatever, and I had a commercial recording studio in Manhattan, which I closed. in 2016 moved here and then I built a mixed studio in our house. and 90% of what I record is in New York or LA or wherever in really big, lovely studios where I don't have to clean them up. Yeah. my client pays them and then I say, that was fun. See ya. And then I came up, come up here and mix the record. Yeah. in my room up here, which is, state of the art room, but that's without a clock on the wall without any clients and in my pajamas. Which is really nice. It's and then I do some recording up here, like I'm recording two records for clients right now. and so I'll do some bass tracks or guitar tracks, et cetera, et cetera here. But I've made sure purposely that I have a limited, ability to record. I record a high level here like I would in New York City. But I don't want to do entire groups and stuff here. I take those groups down to a better studio and a fully equipped studio. Take advantage of that from my years of recording in New York and, and then come back here and mix and edit the projects up here. Cool. Yeah. obviously you gave us a rundown of just some of your early years, many bands. Yeah. it seems like at some point in your career, you built on your skillset, helped produce Yeah. Manage recordings. May maybe just give some insight into that. just how your career has changed over time besides strictly playing. Yeah. I'm fortunate to have made a life in music and made a living in music and, not easy, I would imagine. Not easy. no. a door opens as they say, or you see an opportunity or you create something like, I created the doja, festival or you see a need for something and a reason for it. Not that I'm some altruist or something, but you see something and you say, yeah, I'm gonna give that a shot. And as many times as I've had successes, I've had complete failures where I start something and go, that was really a dumb idea, and then that leads somewhere else. Yeah. So the recording, I bought a little four track porta studio in about 1979 and started dabbling in my living room, and then that became an eight track system and a 16 track system. All analog, cutting physical tape. And editing. There were no computers you could work with back then. And then that moved into digital recording and digital tape, and then that moved on to computers. So my background, is, learning the ropes and how to do it physically as a real engineer as opposed to someone who manipulates garage band. You have to learn what mi certain microphones do and won't do, and where to put them, and how to use them in a large room. And then, and that's always been a passion. And at the same time, I'm fortunate that I've written, music for a lot of commercials and other things. I wrote a song for, I had this friend years ago, an Italian guy named Aldo Mat. who turned, this is years ago. He turned 80 and I was, or 75 might have been. And I went to his birthday and I wrote a piece of music for him. And since he grew up in Italy in the fifties, I wrote it in that style. tongue in cheek. It was like a comedic thing, and, presented it to him on his birthday in the Hamptons and, in a big room full of people and was prerecorded and stuff. And he said to me, oh, George, I hate this piece of music. It's this, I hate this. And I was like, oh, wow. Thank you. so why? And he said, it's in this style of the 1950s and it reminds me of being old. And I said, yeah, whatever. And about six months later. An ad agency heard it and Alitalia Airlines bought the piece of music out for me and put it on national television. And certainly, I didn't say anything to Aldo, but he called me up and he said, I, George, I was listening to Channel seven and there's my song. And I said, yeah, there is Aldo. And he goes, I love this piece of music. And I was like, yeah. Okay. But, some doors open and some slam, so you never know. yeah. and you gotta take the shot and sometimes you score the goal and sometimes you get checked and you don't, you screwed, but whatever. You gotta give it a shot. This episode is sponsored by Edelweiss Mountain Deli located on the mountain Road. I know for me it is the perfect stopping point after day on the hill to grab my favorite Waitsfield sandwich and a cup of coffee, and for me grabbing my favorite Sweet Sensation bar. Whether you're looking for fresh Vermont pastries, farm to table prepared meals or local Vermont products to add your barbecue, make sure Edelweiss Mountain Deli is your next stop. When it comes to luxury real estate in Stowe Trust, Meg Kaufman of Land Vests, Christie's International Real Estate. Meg Kaufman knows the market inside and out. She's been a part of the Stowe community for over 20 years. Whether you're buying or selling, Meg Kaufman offers a concierge level of service. Taylor, just for you. Backed by the power of land vests and Christie's International. She brings proven success and local insight to every transaction, luxury real estate, local expertise. Meg Kaufman and Land Vests are the team you want on your side let's talk about the Jazz Fest. So what inspired you to start the Gau Jazz Fest? This is what, the seventh year? Ninth year. Ninth year. Yeah. Yeah. the plague got in the way in the middle, but I started it in the end of 2016, in two th when I was still living here before I moved away. So I guess about 1993 or something. I had a meeting with what was then the STO Area Association. I don't remember what it was called or who was on it. And I said, I have this idea to do a jazz festival here. And someone at this big conference table said, oh, jazz, I hate Dixieland. And I kinda went, okay, this is not gonna work. and forgot about it. Yeah. so when my wife and I wanted to leave New York City in 2016, now she's from the UK and I grew up most of my life in Europe. We were on the fence about where to go. And I said, if you were to stay in the US where would you go? And she said, I would love to only really move back to Stowe, where we met I, and literally that afternoon. I called our mutual friend, Bobby Roberts, who I still remembered up here, and I said, are you still hustling? And because he's amazing businessman. And he said, yeah, I, I said, I'm looking for a condo to land in. And five weeks later we were here. I did not come back here to start a jazz festival. Yeah. But I would say about a month and a half in or two months in, I remembered the idea and I noticed that the vibe here, was more creative. It was a more hip, if you want to use that word, bunch of people, younger people with more creative drive. And and I borrowed a bicycle from Pinnacle, from Steve Sulin at Pinnacle and started pedaling around the village and popping into places where people would still admit to being my friend after all these years and. Inside of six weeks, I had 47 local sponsors. and we launched that year. Yeah. my intention was to start an event in STO that was completely different, from any other event here and broke every single rule I could find because, was the Steve Jobs line if no one needs another, a 13th Google, we have that. there's so many. Great events here that kind of do the same thing. They charge tickets for this and there's a sponsor for that. And and it's co cookie cutter. They're all cool, there's beers and bikes, which is great. And a balloon fest. they're all great, but they're anti car. Yeah. But they charge you to come in. You gotta wear a little bracelet, and I, having played international jazz festivals in Europe and Brazil and stuff myself, there's a lot of things about jazz festivals that kind of piss me off and alienate the musician and therefore alienate the audience. Yeah. So I wanted to start a jazz festival with international great players that I'd met over the decades that was a hundred percent free to the audience. That's cool. Yeah. Because. If you're going to Newport or even the Burlington Discover Jazz Festival, where I played for years and I won't, I don't play there anymore. I won't play there anymore. but there are other festivals around and you want to go there and hear a group and first of all, 60% of the groups there don't play jazz. so call it a music festival. Yeah. Because if you actually look into jazz and you'll find that there are so many subsets of jazz that are certainly more, just as energetic as hip hop or anything else, or sold or blues. and the other side of them is you're gonna pay through the nose to go to Saratoga for, a hundred plus bucks a day to sit 300 feet from a stage and watch what's going on in a big screen. And you're not taking your kids'cause it's too expensive. Yep. So our festival stage Jazz festival, which has about 90 business partners and all sorts of angels that donate to us anonymously, You look off the stage and there's 600 people there and 200 of'em are kids. Yeah. So that's glue for the community. it's helping kids and opening up their eyes and their ears to an art form they would never see up here in this area. Never. Not even, especially not in Burlington, or other local festivals. It's all open, it supports a lot of things that, that this culture and this area support. There's, it's diverse. it's, there's a sense of parity and equality. This year on our mainstay, we have nine or 10 venues here and now instead of one. Yeah. And this year on our main stage, which is this year, is the first year it's gonna be on the, ow events field on Mayo Farm Road, because we outgrew our numbers. Outgrew the Alchemist. Yeah. Who are still great friends and a major sponsor, but I. Last year, on Friday and Saturday, we had over a thousand people on their lawn, and that's not fair. We're killing their property. Yeah. So I met with Jen and John there, and we all agreed amicably, I, we gotta get this outta here. So now we're on the events field and there's 15 groups on the main stage. And this year I decided that all 15 groups would have, band leaders that are women. first of all, I, I consider myself a, a pretty damn good guitar player and jazz player, and I would say 75% of these women kick my butt and they should. Yeah. And there's no reason f and you see a lot of this lack of equality in booking, in, in jazz. There's, all these festivals are starting to get hip now and realize that there's women out there that have had to. become even stronger in their music and their artistic pursuit because guys own this. So they've had to do better Yeah. And study harder. And we have 15 of them this year that are just killing, And then we have nine other venues in town, which are, other international artists and, but just not women band leaders. Some of them are, but some of them aren't. yeah. Yeah. So you talked about, obviously it's grown in size. Yeah. you have multiple venues. How else has the event evolved and changed since you first started it? our first year we had about a hundred and seventy five, two hundred people. at the Alchemist on our main stage. And it was pouring rain in 38 degrees. Oh wow. I remember that you remember you were there. I was there. Do you remember when we put the no snow? We put the tent village together. I, on the Saturday night, we have all these Brazilians on stage freezing, and I sent one of our people volunteers off to Obon to buy eight heaters for the stage. 38. That's low. Yeah, it was bad. Nine o'clock at night. And and then it started raining, pouring. And we had a bunch of 10 by 10 and 10 by 15 pop up tents. So I said, I grabbed a microphone and said, okay, everybody, four people each of you go ev, just go get the tents and bring'em right up front. And we strung them together with zip ties and about eight feet off the stage. And between the front edge of the tents and the stage, it became a mud mosh pit. So there it was a party. It was amazing right there. Yeah, it was. And Alchemist ale helped, right? So I'm standing there looking at these resilient Vermonters in their soaking wet fleeces, dancing their brains out a mock boots, some muck boots. It was wonderful. and a mud pit. So we had about 40 something maximum, partners helping us then. And we have, I just said 90 something local businesses, and there's still probably a hundred local businesses that. And they might get a little bit upset about this and that would be a good thing. this entire community benefits from a few hundred thousand dollars of business that comes in town every year. And yet there's a tremendous amount of people that benefit from that with their businesses and are reticent to send us 10 bucks, and at the, and that's okay. You don't wanna do that, just come to the festival and hang. But then again, you see some third homeowners here that come to the festival and introduce me as their best pal to their friends. And last year I squared off to one of them and said, you got pretty amazing house up there on 87 acres. Maybe you could send us a hundred bucks. and so we're trying hard to survive. Yeah. Especially now with some of the NEA grants disappearing, but. Every year it grows as far as its audience is concerned, as far as its supporting businesses, but then the infrastructure goes and the infrastructure, oh man. Over that increases. It's huge now. Yeah, it's huge. it's gone from about, I would say, 40 or 50,000 bucks in our first year to almost 200 now. Wow. And I haven't taken a normal salary in nine years. I'm the only Ed, executive director, founder in the East who's making about 16 grand in draw a year in gasoline, But it's not something I'm gonna stop. Yeah. Because it's just, it's a nonprofit, it. Just does amazing things for students and for businesses and for our community. you guys know, you come out and hang out and you got a Grammy winner or three on stage playing stuff, and they're all from Cuba, and you're like, what in the hell in sto? No, it's true. is it hard to get people to come or do they see what you're doing? Oh, I paid, no, I'm kidding. you put them up, right? Yeah. you may try to make it easy for people to come. Yeah. Yeah. I get about still, I get about two, I get about 200 plus submissions a year now, or close to 300 from all over the world. People want to come now it's an international thing that it's an accredited jazz festival I'm getting submissions now for 20 26, 3, 4 months ago. For 2026. Wow. but yeah, it's, musicians wanna play, they wanna play. And we pay them correctly. In fact, we overpay them purposely, We have, I think it's eight lodging partners in town that give us, either in kind donations or if they have a bar like field guide has a bar, we'll put some music there and we'll pay for the music and we'll pick the music. So it stays at a high level. Yeah. Because part of our mission locally is, what I figure as a 50 year musician, at 65 years old, I had inspirations and mentors through the years, right? So if we book these people that local musicians think are some of the best in the business, then hopefully we'll float our own boats higher as far as our, musicians, community is concerned. So we have lodging partners that will help us and restaurant bars that will help us, and we make sure that it's funny because, I'm right now still in fundraising, even though I'm seven weeks out for this year. We're about 60, 60% of the way there. So we're about right now, we're about 50 something thousand dollars short, seven year, seven weeks to, to find it, which we will, guardedly optimistic. I find that as we grow more people that might not have been involved in the previous years, who said, let's see if this thing works. Yeah. Now they're beating a path to get in because they see what positive impact it has. Yeah. yeah, it's, it's worth doing. That's all I can say. It absolutely just. Big gift to the community and thankful. Oh, I like it. All the work the way, thankful for all the work that you put into it. What makes Stowe a unique location? Oh, interesting. The jazz festival. Interesting. all I have to do, we're sitting here in this absolute gorgeous room and I'm looking, I saw a tractor driving by. Yeah. there you go. I'm facing the opposite direction and I'm looking at the, basically what is part of the, that's Worcester Range, basically right there, Worcester. And I'm looking at, for those spectacular, I forget, forget it. the name of this town, the name of this state is, green Mountain and I'm being blinded by shades of Green right now. So it's a beautiful place. It's it's an interesting community having been here off and on for 30, I guess almost 30 years. it's, It's affluent and at the same time it's not, people think that STO is just a bunch of like really rich people, which cracks me up because the three of us know those that aren't including certain jazz musicians that happen to be in the room at the moment because people are up here, are working for a living. They're creative. They have to be. Yeah. If you make it through a couple of winters here, that's a good point. community to me is everything. When I was an instructor up here on my first season, yet another, aside, living in that place on Molten Lane, I contracted one of those flues you get when you're a kid, 103 degrees and you're whacked. And in an afternoon I was probably six weeks into the ski season or less, coming up my dirt road, there's two cars. And I said, oh and there's nothing else on my road back then. Tyvek, is on my road. I was really ill and it was a two car full of instructors with bags of groceries and a bottle of gold tequila. They walked into my living room, they put it on the desk and they walked out. I, and I was blown away, absolutely blown away. That, and that was the community that was I was introduced to is people like it was winter and they wanted to help me out'cause I was sick and I couldn't get outta the house and they brought me groceries. come on, and tequila. yeah, there was that, and it helped me cure my, what ailed me at the moment. Yeah, exactly. But, so sto to me, has a really strong sense of community. it runs the gamut of different kinds of people from different places. people that are just scraping and at the same and looking for housing and people who are extremely wealthy and they all come together. And you don't know who you're standing next to at the STO Jazz Festival. Yeah. Yeah. That's the beauty of it. I was asked a couple of years ago by a business that wanted to be involved. They said, we're gonna give you a check for X amount of money. How much, how many VIPs, VIP tickets can we get? I said, how many do you want? And they said, usually if we do this for the Shelburn farm or something, we'll get 15 VIP tickets. And I nodded. I said, okay, I'll give, I can give you 25. Like I said, no, I don't think you understand. I said, okay. It's 40 VIP. It's my last offer. I can give you 40. And he looked at me and I said, there are no VIPs. Everyone's a VIPs. that's the beauty of it, right? That's right. You could be, I'm standing next to you listening to music. That's really cool. I have no idea what your money is about, what your religion is about. If you support this or that political party, and frankly, I don't care at a arts event, all of that stuff should stay home. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. so we have this thing where, come on, just, leave the, leave your baggage at the door in your car and just come and enjoy each other's company and the music. Yeah. That's all. Yeah. It creates a really hip, cool environment. Like you feel almost like you're in. New York City Jazz Club. Yeah. Region. Yeah. Where they're like, you're bopping around. There's other venues having late night sessions. Oh man. Yeah. it's it creates, it's really unique. I better not say the name of this, but we have nine other venues that start their music. Sometimes they have there's a venue this year, outbound sto, which used to be the Town and Country, and they have this gorgeous pool outside. Yeah, And so we're putting music next to the pool, which people driving up the mountain road will see and hopefully turn off and go. And there's other venues that have music during the day, but nighttime is when it really starts taking off. Yeah. And we've had this one host who remain nameless for that, has our jam session every Friday and Saturday night. No names come and find out. All right. Come and find out the first secret. The first year we did that, I walked into a room, and I'm up. pretty much straight for four nights. I don't sleep'cause I have to visit all of these places. Yeah. And then I get back to my room and'cause I stay in town for those four days, driving is probably too dangerous. And I, and, I have to stay up and write checks for the next day and stuff. So I sleep two, three hours a night. So I walked into the jam session past midnight, our first year on the Saturday night. And the room where there was music was more than standing room only. And because it's Vermont, people were literally lying back on the floor against the walls with windows open. People smoke in Herb, and I'm standing there looking at this going, this could only be here. Yeah. It, on the one hand, it feels like a New York late night jazz club. like a, like an after hours kind of thing. And at the same time it's a bunch of hippies hanging out, listening to. He and I don't exaggerate world class famous jazz players all going to a jam session now. I lived in New York for a long time. You can, you don't see it quite like that, and you don't get it for free either. You're paying a cover charge, there's no cover charge. It's unique, it's fun. very unique. as you look back on all the years at Jazz festival, you talked about the 38 degree brainstorm. Any moments, artists performances that just really stick out? Oh, wow. I'm sure there's a lot, but there are, they didn't know if there's anything that just really blew your mind there. it's, thanks, Ted. it's difficult because every year there's a lot of things that are unexpected. Eric Santini is our, our course, he's our production manager, our production lead, Eade lead. Shout out to E-Trade the man, legend. And he's amazing. and he works like a dog for that week and, goes through 12 t-shirts a day. He's working so hard. And every year he says the same thing to me. I start, getting anxiety as it gets closer about this or that, or this guy hasn't been paid or that thing isn't covered or whatever, and he always looks at me, says something to the effect of, it's gonna happen. It's not gonna look the way you think it's gonna look, but it's gonna happen. And it does every year. So it's difficult to single out one or two of the finest. but you, when you are on a bandstand, and I'm, or, and I'm introducing every group on the main stage and hundreds of people being turned on to these legendary musicians that have played with Herbie Hancock or have played with Miles Davis or have played with Dizzy Gillespie. And you're sitting there standing there and listening with an alchemist ale in your hand and you haven't paid a penny to do it. Yeah. Amongst, hundreds of people that are there for the same reason. I think every damn band that we have, there's a couple, there's moments where. Where you just, I just have to turn away and walk away laughing because it's, the music is so strong, and then you go to one of these venues at night and there's a trio in there. And because it's a festival and not just a Thursday night gig, I make sure that the people we hire to perform every year are not pickup bands. They're like, even if they're locals, regional players, they're groups that have realized that a festival, I played my first jazz festival when I was 14 and a half years old. I'll never forget the feeling of playing at a festival as opposed to playing at a bar. Yeah, it's a different thing. You say, wow, I've been invited to play a festival, not just Yep. Not just some, some backroom bar, which is also fun, by the way. Yeah. Which I do twice a week. Yeah. Just different. Yeah. Different. But it, you feel, honored to be a part of something. Yeah. and did the musicians all hang out? Do they then talk amongst themselves? Probably oh, you gotta get to St over Vermont and see this place. Oh man. Oh yeah. People, it's a thing, I go to New York and I'm going next week to, play these gigs with the, with these heavies and they all know what's going on and they all want to be here. Yeah. People want to, it's a beautiful place with a great community, wonderful sponsors and, a lot of band leaders when I reach out to them or respond to a submission, a lot of them I've known for years, but a lot of band leaders will say, what kind of stuff do you want me to play? Which is a normal. Question for a festival, promot, what are you expecting? And my answer always is, oh, I know what you do. I don't care what you play. Just come up and do what you do. Our intention here is to open some ears, not, I'm not gonna tell you what to play, not to fit a certain No. You come up and do what you do. you've been handpicked because you're incredible. Yeah. So do whatever it is that wanna do. Yeah. You've got 75 minutes put in a box. You got 75 minutes to do it. I can jam on jam sessions. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's incredible. Yeah. So this year let's talk about maybe some of the things to look forward to. Yeah. It sounds Some jam session, some female, we've got groups. We've got, 15 groups on the main stage, all led by women, all led by women, just, with incredible bands. They're not all the bands are all women, but I've asked these composers and band leaders who are incredible to come and just pick whoever they want. So we'll have that. And then we'll have, nine other venues with, whether it's Brazilian Jazz or Afro-Cuban or, straight ahead from New York or bebop or post bebop or Swing or whatever. We have a 17 piece big band coming up to play at Traps. Oh, wow. Outdoors. Yeah. where else are you gonna do that? Cool. Wow. Yeah. So there's a lot of variety. And one of the great things is if you don't like what you're hearing at one stage and you look at the program, yeah. You look at the program and there's a Brazilian group. Playing five minutes walk away. Leave your car where it is. Yeah. Hop on your e-bike. Hop on your e-bike. And just, did you know Mike's really into ebi? Is that right? Were you the guy that got the ticket? No, I'm kidding. Police, you got a ticket? no. We're giving him a hard time. It's a police blotter mic. They call him. but there's, since there's no cover charges, it's a good point though, it's, you've got a lot of options based on your preference. Just walk around. yeah. Just walk around Jazz. It traps jazz outside. what a setting. Oh man. Oh man. And every venue that supports us and has music Yeah. Has a vibe. They're all different. There's a late night jam session. There's late night stuff. Wow. At most of these places. All very different instrumentation and leaders. And, we have a group coming up, an eight piece group called Bone Gam. Bone Gam. Okay. Why? Because it's five trombone players. Wow. And with a rhythm section and run by a woman named, Jen, Jennifer Wharton from New York City. And this is an incredible group of five trombone players. Never seen that. It's amazing. Yeah. It's in just incredible. And then we have a group on the Saturday night on the main stage. The last group I wanted something high energy, so I found an eight piece all female salsa band from the Bronx. Amazing. Nice. And they rip a hole in it. They're so high energy. So we'll probably have 5, 6, 700 people dancing on the main field. Yeah. Wow. That's great stuff. George, we're gonna jump into some rapid fire questions we'd like to do with our guests. All right. So just prepare yourself, but I think you're also, that's gonna demand a rapid fire answer. I, I tend to talk too much. So Yeah, go for it. Acid jazz or Latin jazz. Yes, both. You bet. Acid, jazz. We have one of the original groups, led by Jonathan Marin, and the group was called Groove Collective. And they've come up a couple of times. Latin Jazz, Latin can be Brazilian Latin, can be Afro-Cuban. We got a lot of that going on too every year. Nice. All of it. All right. Yeah. Another rapid fire here. Miles Davis or John Coltrane? Yes. You gotta pick one. You pick, it's like chocolate or vanilla ice cream. You gotta pick one. You pick. This is a rapid fire. You can't. No. no, they're both. Come on. one George isn't playing along with rapid fire, Chris, around. I respect it. I kind of respect Miles, miles for this and train for that, And they work together by the way. whatever. We're gonna keep going to try and an answer must be a musician. Oh, so this is this, or this is what? This or this. Ah, okay. Okay. Okay. New Orleans Jazz Fest. Or Newport Jazz Fest, Newport. Alright, we got one. We got one. Yes. Electric guitar or acoustic guitar? Electric guitar. Late night jam or early morning practice? For whom? Me personally. You For you both? Honestly, that one, I can't say'cause I practice. I was gonna guess the jam section. I practice every day and I play four gigs a week. some of them are very late night, but I can't, I not play every day and practice every day. I practice every day. Are you better in the morning or at night or, it doesn't matter. At what? At playing. okay. Creativity and playing. night, nighttime. Yeah, for sure. Jam sessions. Alright. New York City Club gig or Vermont Barn gig. Which would you prefer? man, these are tough. You guys are, I know they're tough. You guys brutal man. They're on purpose. You're, they're brutal. these days. Vermont Barn gig. Yeah, for sure. Got an answer. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. That's incredible. So this isn't an or question, a bucket list venue that you want to play, bucket that you've ever played? That I want to play? Yeah. I, I'm gonna call this a venue. the one thing that I haven't done That I've always wanted to do, and it is bucket list, literally written down, is I want to take my trio to tour Europe because I have a trio now and I've had trios for 40 years and I have a trio now up here that is, that has better communication and empathy on the stage than anything I've been involved with for 40 years. It's remarkable. Nice. It really is. Yeah. So that as a venue, Europe, very cool. Yeah. Nice. I'll take it. Yeah. I'm in. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Solo or ensemble? Ensemble. Vinyl. Digital or live? Live. All right. Another question, not a choice. Yeah. Best post gig meal in Ow. Nice one. Best post gig meal in sto. Impossible because nothing's opening until 10 o'clock. this is the, this is, in New York, pre gig meal. No. Yeah. In New York. New York City. After a gig at two o'clock in the morning, you would go music, jazz musician. Yeah. What would it be In New York? You would go to the Empire Diner and you'd have, and or 10 other diners there. My friend wrote a tune called, not So secret Place, because we'd all go, we'd play these rock clubs way before I started playing jazz or concomitant with that. And, two o'clock, three o'clock in the morning, half outta your brain or exhausted, you'd just jump in a cab and go to anywhere and you could get breakfast food or anything else you wanted. Yeah. Here sometimes I wish there was a Greek diner, that would be open after 10:00 PM maybe Jazz Fest week, and we could get a place to stay open and do Greek diner working on it. That would be amazing. I'm kidding him meeting tomorrow morning if anybody's gonna make it happen, would be the post gig. Yeah. but really, if I can get to a place that's still open while I'm here. it's dock ponds for sure. Nice. That's nice. No, encore. One. Encore or two? Encore. Two.'cause I don't, I never wanna stop playing. that's awesome. I just want to keep Yeah. Yeah. You love it. As soon as I get warmed up, it's usually the start of the third set and I'm like, okay, let's go. I can see that. All right. name a musician, you'd drop everything to go see Live Miles Davis. He's dead. Yep. But I would do anything. Did you ever see him? once, yeah, once, but someone a lot, okay, so that's someone deceased, but right now, I would really, I would really like to go back to Monday night in New York at the Village Vanguard year, the Village Vanguard Orchestra. I used to sit at the front table like, I'm three feet from you guys. Their entire front line of saxophones was that far away, and they would open up with a 17 piece band and you were in the band. Wow. And it would hit you like, like thunder most exciting thing in the world. They still play. they're, they've been there 30 years on Monday nights, and I used to go every Monday with my brother. Yeah. That's cool. One word your band mates would use to describe you, just one word. Huh? Besides awesome. Beep. Okay. driven. Okay. I think that certainly adds up. Yeah. All right. Makes sense. Nice. Gibson Fender or something? Boutique. I have all three. That's the problem. right now because of what I'm doing a lot, I would say Gibson, right? Because I'm, I have 18 or 19 instruments at home, in the studio, and right now because of my focus of what I'm doing, I'm playing two Gibson Instruments, a Sadowski That's incredible. And a very old 1965 Fender Strat. So it's all, they all work for a living for me, or they get sold. I don't have anything under the bed. Got it. and everything has its own voice. Gibson now. Very cool. Okay. What is harder winging it through a song you don't know or organizing the STO jazz festival, organizing the Ow Jazz Festival without hesitation. Yeah. You been, you've been playing for a while. It's 11 months of work. Hard work. I have a great team. I'm working with Eric and Hannah and Sarah and Raw. I mean there's, my entire board and volunteers that are all run by Trevor Luce and just, I'm super fortunate that I have now a great team. but it's brutal work for putting some, it's 130 plus musicians, 130 hotel rooms. Raising 200 k. Yeah. And every year you're starting from scratch. Oh yeah. You've got, the theme and you've got the Oh yeah. But you're starting from scratch every year. Yeah. And worth it. And it totally worth it. Nice. that was the hardest, rapid fire round we've ever had to do again, that, yeah. Wow. I like it though, in your case as a jazz musician, so it's complicated. It's nothing I, he took his own path on that. I res I respect it. I'm, yeah, but I'm never, I'm not a shy person and I tend to blab. I've only had one coffee, and that was at six this morning. But, I'll just talk forever, which is not a good thing. All right. So let's just, wrap up and talk about Stowe. So you were lived in Stowe? Yeah. Went back to New York. Yeah. Came back to Stowe. Yeah. Do you think STOs changed a lot through the years? Tremendous amount. Okay. Yeah. Tremendous amount. Yeah. And it still remains wonderful and positive, but different. Yeah. The, the people that I taught skiing with, in 1987, a lot of them are still, ha, thankfully, on this side of the turf. and they're all of those, all of those, those people that are part of the fabric of what I consider to be, the older STO are still here. You don't see'em as much, but they're still here. Yeah. And you bump into them. And then you have all these young interesting people that have moved up here or moved down here, where wherever from and have made a different kind of life here. it's more crowded. it's changed with the times and the cultures, which is any that's gonna happen anywhere. Yeah. and there are folks that are saying it's a little bit too, financially focused. I don't buy it. it's, it is its own thing. I think in northern Vermont where you have a European influence, you have a influence, big influence from Boston, from Montreal and Quebec to a big influence from New York, and then a huge influence from Elmore and Hardwick. Yeah. it's just, that's interesting. Yeah. It's a good take on it. It's just its own thing. Yeah. Yeah. Never a bore. It's unique. I'm going this afternoon to drive to 12 stores to try and find eggs under seven bucks, but, anyway. But they're gonna be good eggs. Damn Farm eggs, right? Yeah. Yeah. They better be. George, what would you say is your hope Forough in the next five to 10 years? I hope that it can move a little bit, like the rest of the country. I hope that, it moves into a tolerance space a bit more. that it, it moves, into a situation that's, a little bit more accessible for people who can't afford, to pay a tremendous amount to ski Yeah. And want to ski And get in the car and go elsewhere because they can't afford to be here. I think that, I hope it attracts more young people that are willing to work for a living and work for our businesses because staffing in every business here is difficult. I hope that the sense of community that's always been stoked from my experience since 1987 grows stronger and that people knit things together. And that is precisely why I'm doing it. This jazz festival. Yeah. It, the entire mission of this, which is not. what is written down, application for being a nonprofit, but deep in our hearts, the entire idea of this is to support this community and to make this community glue itself together. That is the entire thing. So that, I would love to see, I would love to see a Greek diner at night. I would love to see more music of any kind. Yeah. Any kind at all. because I love it all. and just, more just keep the community thing in cooperation going, I, I started this thing lastly, I'm doing this thing on, and this is a plug for it. On June 22nd, I'm, I've put together, an event, a one-off event called the Summer of Love Project, I've put together a 16 piece band that will play that afternoon at the Alchemist. At 2:00 PM June 22nd, and we're playing the music of the mid 1960s before the protest music. against the Vietnam War, which also has a place. But just before the protest music, there was this sense of music coming out of, especially California Hate Asbury area. That was the Mamas and the Papas, and the Association in the Fifth Dimension in Carlos Santana. And the whole thing was about, peace, love, and dope, or peace, love, and brown rice or whatever you wanna call it. And it was the hippie era. And I put this together because I believe that our community and every community needs to come together a bit more and get rid of the baggage. Yeah. So that's an afternoon of, with a 16 piece or, band with four incredible women seeing in a horn section and the whole thing. and, no, no charge, no tickets, just come and hang out. that's gonna be good. That's, yeah. That's great. So that's what it's, that's what I'm about. So yeah. Bringing people together, community. yeah. And the funny thing is reduce the barriers. Yeah. I did not, I'm no altruist, I haven't been pursuing this as a thing for my life as a focus or a mission to bring people together. Now I've just been a musician forever and an instigator of events and things and bands and things like that. And then I realized in the first year of the OW Festival, so jazz festival, I. There's a higher purpose to this stuff. And I went wow. Wow. I should, wow. I didn't know that. I thought it was just gonna be fun. Yeah. And all of a sudden it's that's a cool discovery. Yeah. Yeah. My wife says to me all the time, you're only doing this so you can hear your friends play. There's some truth to that. Yeah. That's how it started. But, turn into, in your own backyard, pretty much in your own backyard. Yeah. I'm no fool. yeah. Nice. All right, George, we wrap up all of our episodes. We ask all our guests one question. Oh no. If STO did not exist Yeah. Does not exist on the map, where would you be living? Cor Corsica. Corsica, okay. Yeah, it's a little tiny island in the Mediterranean. Yeah. Yeah. Nice beaches, food. It's just fresh food and no casinos and quiet. And at my age, basically, I've been going there, since I was 16, off and on. And, it's just a very wonderful quiet place, that's not usually expensive and peaceful and you're surrounded by the sea and, great food and phenomenal wine, and not a lot of tourists gotta be some good music. It will be if I get there. no, they have a jazz festival and they have their own thing, they have their own cor vocal. There'd be some music there if it's gonna, and it's just a, it's an idyllic place. Love. It really is. Thank you so much, George. Thanks. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Thank so much. Looking forward to the JazzFest this year. It's amazing fun. Yep. Thank you guys. All right. Hope you enjoyed that episode of the Octagon Podcast. Remember to like us on Instagram and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. See you next time.