#31: Gregg Goodson: Animal Care and Community as a Stowe Veterinarian

This week we were excited to welcome Gregg Goodson into the Octagon studio. Gregg is a highly respected veterinarian based in Stowe, Vermont, serving as the owner and lead veterinarian at Stowe Veterinary Clinic. A graduate of Tufts School of Veterinary Medicine, Gregg is known for his compassionate and attentive care, treating pets as if they were his own. 

Transcript

0:00

This episode of the Octagon is sponsored in part by archery close. Hey, this is Chris and Taste from Archery Clothes, your go-to boutique. For men's and women's fashion, we carry a curated selection of clothing, footwear, and gifts from unique and emerging brands. We're proud to sponsor the Octagon and even prouder to be local business owners here in Stowe. We love how the Octagon captures the history and characters of this incredible town. After coming off the slopes or the trails, stop by archery close. Located at 1650 Mountain Road in Stowe. Open seven days a week, or always open online@archeryclose.com. Welcome listeners to the Octagon Podcast where we explore the stories, people, and places that make stove Vermont so legendary. I'm your host, Ted Thorndyke, joined by my co-host Mike Carey. We are excited to introduce our guest today, Greg Goodson. Greg is a highly respected veterinarian based in STO Vermont, serving as the owner and lead veterinarian at STO Veterinarian Clinic, a graduate of Tufts School of Veterinary Medicine. Greg is known for his compassionate and attentive care treating pets as if they were his own. Welcome, Greg. thank you for that introduction. Yeah, welcome. I know you got a lot to live up to now, Greg. Yeah, it actually makes me sound good. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for coming on and we'll just jump right in. when you look back, when did you first realize you wanted to. Become a vet? I'm the standard story. I thought I wanted to be a vet when I was in about sixth grade. Okay. And I read all the, all creatures great and small stories. we love playing with all the animals, although I didn't have a pet dog until I was in sixth grade either, Wow. That's'cause of allergies. Seems like I outgrew those. Thank God. so were growing up with a lot of pets around the house, we only ever had the one dog other than for some reason our house attracted all the kids in the neighborhood and all the dogs in the neighborhood. And then by teenage years we were very horsey active. Okay. Yeah. I liked horse riding and as I got a little bit older. seemed like the girls were riding horses. The boys were riding motorcycles. I thought, huh, maybe this is a smart move. Sadly, when the girls discovered boys, they liked the boys with the motorcycles. Ah, got it. Little behind the curve there. thank goodness. Lely likes horses. Yeah. And me. Yeah. Nice. So yeah, so we grew up, in Sto Hollow. Yeah. We had a very active four H club with horses and there were probably 25 kids riding around. And nowadays if you go up into Stone Hall, it's fairly busy. And a lot more houses and bicycles and walkers replaced where we used to ride. you could pretty much go anywhere then. kids would all arrive at our place, tie up the horses, go swimming in the pond, and then continue on the rest of the day. Was there a vent in ow at that time? a lot of people know Dave Seaquest, his kids are still here in town. Yeah. He was just getting started then. Yeah. And our first vet experiences were when our dog and we had a fairly infamous dog. He was well known all around the neighborhood because we couldn't keep'em tied up. So he would go exploring, go down, visit the neighbors, see what was for breakfast, and porcupines. He got into porcupines on a fairly regular basis to the point I. Where at that stage in his career, Dave didn't have the hospital yet. He was still driving around. he used to get secondhand state police cars'cause they had bigger motors and he could go faster. Wow. and our dog got to recognize the sound of his car when he pulled in.'cause he knew one his nose was gonna hurt and two, he was gonna get knocked out. yeah. No, I've had a couple, my dog has had two pretty notable porcupine. 300 quills. Your dogs growing up were regulars. My parents went through a lot of dogs. A lot of dogs. And you were very helpful. They had one dog that. Went through a lot of porcupines. yep. And my dog now. So yeah. Keep keeping the tradition alive. Yeah. And it is funny'cause you don't see a lot of porcupine when you're just out hiking and mountain biking. You don't see a lot. they're, but the dogs seem to find them. They're not the dogs, they're not that far off the trail. And dogs can sniff'em out. Yeah. And dogs can outrun porcupines. Yeah. Yeah. They're not that fast. Yeah. They don't, porcupines don't have to run away. Don't catch'em. Yeah. They don't throw their quills either. So the dogs have to get Yeah. Be proactive. Yeah. Up close and personal. And some dogs learn their lessons and some are bent on revenge. And as I've said over the years, the ones that bent were bent on revenge. I have an old. Sports car. And I said, if I could ever, I see, I've seen that if I could ever afford a sports car, I'd have to put quills on the license plate. So that's what it has. Oh, I've seen that. Yeah. Awesome. Love it. around town, most people find the humor in that. Yeah. Oh, you have to. That's great. Yeah, it's great. So yeah. so you mentioned, sixth grade you're reading these books Yeah. As you grow up, exposed to horses. Yeah. how did it, how did your passion continue to develop? Oh, I, it was always what I wanted to do. Yeah. I do have to say my high school advisor said, looking at your grades, maybe you should find an alternative path. And I wish I could have gone back to and said, don't be afraid to follow your dream. Yeah. And I ended up going to vet school. And when I was, there was a gap between undergrad and. Fat school. When I worked in the ski shop, I worked in the original boots and boards. Oh hell yeah. With the people all, or a lot of people remember Morris La Farrier and the boot doctor where, harvest Market was. Yeah. Oh, actually the original one was where Black Cap is now. Oh wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. So it was there and then moved up the road and I worked under him for five years. Nice. Yeah. And little known was, we almost bought that and ran that instead of the David from front floor. Oh wow. Yeah. But then I went to school, got into school and you went, was the end of it. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a long few years.'cause Lee and I got married when I was in the first semester, had Kelsey the second year. So I was commuting and I would come back on the weekends. Yeah. Oh wow. And which worked out well. My grades maybe weren't quite as good, but I'd come home on the weekend and be a human being again. Yeah. Got to see, be the family. Whereas the rest of the class would either party or study. Depending on who they were. You were changing diapers. I was, yeah. I'd get home and Lily would say, oh, thank God you're home. And then, so when I came back, I worked for Dave for three years. Dave Seaquest. Dave Seaquist. Yeah. And people now know me for dogs and cats and so forth, but. And all through school in my class, I was known for horses and cows. Really? A large animal, because I was expecting that's what I was gonna be doing up here. Yep. Yeah. Dave really liked doing the horses and cows. So when those calls came, he went and yeah, people got to know me for their dogs and cats and when I split off, He got to focus more on large animal, and I got to do the small, and we stayed friends till he died. Wow. Yeah. And I still see a lot of the family. so he was a great mentor. Great role model. So when you're in vets is, and I don't know, is vet school four years? Mm-hmm. Yep. it's essentially like med school, except that you have to focus on Yeah. Different critters. Yeah. And at the end of vet school, you can go right into practice, whereas no residency. Most of the residency. Yeah. Yeah. I, and you can do internships and residency as, as well. Yeah. And there's a lot of specialists and nowadays, we take advantage of that. Which is great for the pets. Yeah. So when you become a vet, can you work on any animal? Can you just, you don don't need like a specialty in dogs, cats, horses, cows. you're ready to go for a bear. I guess it depends on how box, I guess it depends how brave you are, but, and it depends on where you are. Yeah. you think about it, your family doctor in the bush in Alaska may be called upon to do things that might be outside his comfort zone, but the alternative for the patient is worse. Yeah. it's a little more specialized than it used to be. But when I started yeah. I pretty generalized. Yeah. I've had a lot of different things come through the door. Yeah. And we're gonna get into that. I want to hear some of that. People have some weird pets. Yeah. I'm sure. And different ideas. so you're at Tufts and then you graduate and you when you were at Tufts, did you always envision yourself having, being part of a small practice? Oh, absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. I was lucky enough that, probably partway through my third year Talked to Dave and, my job interview with him was, can you come over and help me this afternoon? Yeah. I'm clearing some wood. Yeah. And basically my job was to clear the brush and I kept up, and I think that was my, I think that was my interview. I thought you were gonna say he was gonna call you up, Hey, need you to clear out the horse stall or something. no. It was physical labor out the chores and. Dave was a very physically strong guy and Yep. I think that the fact that I could at least partially keep up to him was A sign that I was physically able to do it. Yeah. Nice. And then, and then when I started working for him, and I'd go to some of the farms And they would, now Dave had been an All American football player. Oh wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was even drafted. Wow. So I'd get to the farms and they would say, Dave doesn't do it like that. And I'm like, yeah, but I can't pick up your cow minor detail. Yeah. And then there was one or two that would say, we like Dave, but You're a little more delicate, so swings both ways. Exactly. Totally. So what's a typical day like at the clinic for you? Are you doing a lot of house calls, you're doing more people? Is it emergencies? What's, what kind of a, if there is a typical day, I'd like to say there isn't a typical day. Yeah. And basically what I do is we get in the morning, figure out what's going on. so like my day, I get there and I do see appointments for, from eight till about 11. And then I do my surgeries between 11 and two. And then. Get back to appointments till the end of the day and Yep. So it, some days you're running behind. All it takes is one emergency. Yeah. Yeah. And all the good planning goes to hell. But thank goodness our clients'cause the patients, they're not that excited about being there anyways. The patients. Exactly. But our clients, their understanding, as I say to so many people, on another day when your dog's sick or hurt, you get to the move to the front of the line and somebody else will wait for their absolutely. Vaccinations. And everybody seems to be very understanding. Yeah. Do you do, any, on call or emergency? something happens at night. I don't anymore. Yeah, I don't blame you. We put your time in. I did that for. 20 odd years. Yeah. And it just, one is when I started, we didn't have any emergency facilities, so everybody did their own. Yep. Yeah. And if somebody was gonna be away, we would call one of the other that's around and let them know so that they could take extras. And then we would just let whoever our answering service know that's who you would call. And that seemed to work, but it got to a point where if nobody's doing it, and I was one of the later ones to stop doing it, I was getting calls from all over the place and I would get to the clinic and wait for an hour and a half for somebody to come down from Newport. Yeah, that's a lot. And then when I call, I was like, oh, Fluffy's doing better fluffy. So Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for wasting my time and. The, the emergency facility that we have over in Williston, it is a bit of a haul. Yeah. Have you have utilized that? Yeah. They were great. You have? Yeah. But porcupine incident Porcupine, yeah. Yeah. the porcupine assistance, the people wait till the morning, then they drop'em off in the morning and, but you don't really wanna watch your dog Yeah. Sit through the night. Not too many cats get quilled. We've had it, but not very often. Yeah. Yeah. It's unpleasant to watch'cause they're trying to take'em out. Oh, Yeah. And they're in a lot of pain, so they need immediate attention. Yeah. So what are some of the common emergencies that, that you see? Oh, the common ones one porcupines this time of year. ate something that they shouldn't have is probably the most common thing. Okay. whether it passes through or not, it may not. The GI system, the gut doesn't like it, whatever. and that, that's busier right after Thanksgiving, right after Christmas. What do you do for that? Do you have to depends on extract it. Yeah. if, if there's an obstruction, yeah, that's a surgical issue, but more often than not, it's just severe. yeah, either the runs or vomiting, any which way it's not need. and what else? we see less, fortunately for us, we see less animals that have been hit by cars. I think people are more vigilant now, about keeping their pets, under control. Again, partly because. As you notice, the town's grown. Yeah. And there's more traffic, so Yeah. People are more careful, back in the days where, and if you were up in the hollow and a car went by every 10 minutes. Yeah. It was a busy day. Yep. do people have more pet, I feel like people have more pets today. You, yeah. People do. I think so. We saw more dogs, the trend. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like most families have a, I feel like I see dogs everywhere where I didn't used to as the time, much more people have dogs and more people have more dogs. Yeah. Or cats. Yeah. it used to be. Yeah. you had a dog or you had a cat, or sometimes one of each. And now, people have three dogs, bunch of cats. what do you think that trend is all about? may, maybe hard to pinpoint it, but it's a notable change. It's, I think it's a social thing as much as anything. Yep. And, they are certainly much more of the family Yeah. Than they used to be. Maybe people work from home so they have more time to spend with their pet versus being out all day. It's good point. Whether they're home. Yeah. definitely COVID changed things. And a lot of the pets weren't too excited when people actually had to go back to work and they were left home alone. that's a real. A thing with the animals getting anxious, being Yeah. Left at home. I feel like fish, nobody, one has fish anymore. Never see fish tanks. people dont take their fish out for a walk. you go to someone's house. I hardly ever see a fish tank. Do you ever see a fish tank? I do every day. I don't. Yeah, I think that's a little less popular. Yeah. Because, I don't think they hand them out at the Champlain Fair anymore. The one goldfish in bags, home in the bag. Fish in a bag. Birds. People have birds. People have birds. Yeah. No. Yeah. That would not be my choice. Yeah. snakes, snakes. No thanks. People have rats. Rats. Rats are good pets. Rats are, we went through a lot of rats. And rats are of all the pocket pets for rodents, whatever you want to call them. Yeah. They were the best. Yeah. We had hamsters. We had Guinea pigs. Yeah. Yeah. Gerbils. Gerbils. Yeah. Rabbit. We had rabbits. We never had a rabbit. Okay. But at that seems to point be pretty popular though. We were, I think my daughter was going to the pet store. She was with Lely to go get another, I think it was Guinea pig and there was a, an aquarium full of rats. And she went over and said, oh, those are cute. and there was a guy with a bunch of tats and a leather vest and he's oh, are you getting a pet too? No, I'm getting'em for my snake. And he's looking at it is and he's looking at one and Kelsey's that's the one I wanted. So she came home with two rats and we had pet rats. Yeah. Ever after just running around the house? No, they stayed in their little Got it house. Okay. But they were very friendly. They were sociable. Yeah. She could walk around. With them on her shoulder. she was famous one year.'cause Lely used to make their Halloween costumes and that year and Spice Girls were the thing back then. Yeah. Yeah. what do you wanna be, Kelsey? I wanna be a trash can. A what? Garbage can and so I can take my rats. So Lily went, she got a metal garbage can cut the bottom out of it, put straps in it, taped glued garbage all around the edges. And Kelsey went, figured out a way so that she could wear the lid and she went around as a trash can. Wow. With her two rats on her shoulder and word got out and she got to one place and the lady said, little girl, you're the one with the rats. I'll give you all the candy you want if you don't come any closer. Good strategy. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, they're cute. The rats are cute. They're not New York City rats. No, they're cute. I don't know, man. I just, they can, once you get past the tail, I just can't buy in. Once you get past the tail and if you rub the tail in the right direction, they're actually pleasant. Yeah. I can see Mike's wheel spinning. No, I always wanted a pet chimpanzee growing up. That would be cool. I know. I'd be on board with that. I read a lot about it when I was a kid'cause I was obsessed with getting one. And they destroy your house. Yeah. they can destroy you too. that was, they're strong. Yeah. Yeah. The whole exotic pet thing is a fascinating world. Yeah. I don't know how gory we want to get here, but Yeah. let it go. In vet school, we had to do wildlife and exotics and so forth. And our professor for that was a world famous. He was the. An anesthesiologist and he developed a lot of it for, the wild world of animals. Marlon Perkins. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the first slides he showed us was just a thumb with all its tendons and hanging out on a piece of cloth said that's somebody that stuck their finger into a chimpanzee cage. Wow. Yeah. Wow. yeah. Yeah. I don't do, I don't do chimps. You don't do chimps. No. Yeah. That's funny. This episode is sponsored by Edelweiss Mountain Deli located on the mountain Road. I know for me it is the perfect stopping point after day on the hill to grab my favorite Waitsfield sandwich and a cup of coffee, and for me grabbing my favorite Sweet Sensation bar. Whether you're looking for fresh Vermont pastries, farm to table prepared meals or local Vermont products to add your barbecue, make sure Edelweiss Mountain Deli is your next stop. When it comes to luxury real estate in Stowe Trust, Meg Kaufman of Land Vests, Christie's International Real Estate. Meg Kaufman knows the market inside and out. She's been a part of the Stowe community for over 20 years. Whether you're buying or selling, Meg Kaufman offers a concierge level of service. Taylor, just for you. Backed by the power of land vests and Christie's International. She brings proven success and local insight to every transaction, luxury real estate, local expertise. Meg Kaufman and Land Vests are the team you want on your side obviously you've been at this for a while, Greg, and, as you reflect on all the years, what's it been like running this practice in a small town like Stowe? I think I couldn't be luckier. Oh, that's cool. Because it's cool, one is, I'm lucky enough that my position is something that's I. Everybody likes in the community. Yeah. And you get to do something that's helpful for people Totally. And their pets. Yeah. and even today as like the joys of being a small town vet, when somebody pulls in, chances are I recognize the car. And I know the neighborhoods. if some disease process is going around at one house I'll know if the next door neighbor comes in and the same problems happening, it's the same source. So it gives me a little bit of a hand up. gives me a chance to know a lot of people from a lot of different, backgrounds and. Outlooks and so forth. Because, the pets are a common denominator and it doesn't matter what your politics are. Yeah. it's totally true. your animals' names may be different. yeah. I believe that. But, from that respect, and I was lucky enough that for when the years when the kids were growing up, the office was at the other end of the house, so my commute to work meant changing outta slippers into shoes. and the kids would come home from work, walk through Half the time, Kelsey would look and say, what you got in here today, dad? Or if there was something after hours, I could run into the house and grab one of the kids to help me. I. So very cool. That is cool. Very cool. kids have helped deliver dogs and cats and hold onto this or Yep. I need some help. Yep. Pulling quills. Yeah. Yep. Did any of you the kids go into animal? No. No. None of'em. Okay. Nope. I, you might know my son Matt, everybody knows him as goodie. Yeah. Would recognize him being upside down up on the mountain. Yeah. He's, or going backwards. He was a wild man. Yeah. he, I saw him airborne a lot. Yeah. Up at the mountain. Thank God I didn't see a whole lot of that.'cause I saw a lot of that. I really don't want to Good hockey player too. Yeah. And now he's grown up with kids and he hasn't been skiing for two years. And he was out on the rink this winter though. And Very cool. had, he's got a 2-year-old, so the 2-year-old was on skis this year. That was the first time he was back on snow. Yeah. And my daughter, who for years thought she wanted to be a vet and then she discovered scuba diving and made a career on water. Yeah. So yeah. Connected to animals and wildlife in a different way, yeah, exactly. She, yeah, she did her degree in environmental biology and then taught scuba diving, guided scuba diving, and then ended up as a charter boat captain down in the, Caribbean. Yeah, somewhat animal related. Looking at wa, looking at, underwater creatures. No animals, not quite the same animals. Most of the animals, I think, were her clients on the boat, taking people out for a week. That was animal management too, I think a lot of the time. so what's, what's the strangest animal you've ever treated? probably the most exotic was, I did have a leopard come in once. What? It was a pet leopard? it was part of a display. the lady had an exotic collection or preserve somewhere in New Hampshire, and she had, I was not expecting that display or an exhibit at the Lamo County field days. So I don't know whether this was a Tiger King kind of thing or not, but she, she came in and she had this, the cutest little leopard. It's seven weeks old. They are really cute. And I think it just had. Overheated. I gave it supportive care and got to look at it and wow, that's cool. At seven weeks old and maybe a dozen pounds, it's teeth and its claws were the size of something that you'd see on about a 40 pound dog. And I'm yes, these are killing machines. Yeah, totally. And when it started to feel better, I suggested, okay, it's coming around now. You want to get in your car and get back to your regular vet. Yeah. Wow. It must be cool though, for you to just be with the animal and see. Yeah. So that was, that's about as exotic as I've gotten. I've had, cute little pets. I've people find wildlife and bring them in. They do. Okay from time to time. birds get caught in fences or get hit by cars and stuff and yeah. We'll end up again stabilizing them. And birds especially, and birds of prey. They're, they look tough when they're attacking other animals, but they're also relatively fragile. Yeah. So we'll give'em supportive care and then hand them off to like VINs the bird sanctuary. Yeah. and is that in conjunction with a game warden if it involves wildlife? it depends on what it is. Yeah. Something like that. Probably not. Yeah. But like a deer, I've, I had somebody come in once that brought a deer in. A little baby deer still had spots. Yep. And I. You know what they said? They found it on the side of the road, which they did, and it was right by the police station. So then I, called the game war and it's perfectly healthy. And he said, yeah, just hang onto it. I'll be there in a while. Yeah. And we walked over, up along the ridge between the post office and the police station there. Yep. There's a bunch of condos up in there now. Yep. But back then it was woods. And he said, just keep carrying it and every now and then jab it in the ass with your thumb, and so it would go, it would bleed, like they sound like little lambs. Yeah. then the mother would hopefully, and he then, mom will hear it and then we'll just put it in a hollow it at the base of the tree and mom will come back when there's nobody around. Yep. It's true. the message, is when you find wildlife. If it's not injured. And most of the time they're not. They're just, yeah, let'em be. Yeah. Put, if they're in the middle of the road, no, you put it, bring them to someplace safe. And if it's a bird, if you can find the nest, put it back in the nest. If not, put it as close as you can. same thing with wildlife. I had somebody found a skunk once, baby, skunk, and brought it to you. Brought it to me here. And they found it. And that one was not feeling all that well. It was, it probably was overheated too. Middle of the summer. Yeah. So we gave it some fluids. It started perking up feeling better. And I said, okay, now you can clear it away. Take it back to where you brought it. Yeah. And all the whole time I was being really careful to hold the tail, get down so it didn't spray. And as they're walking out the door, they said. Is it a boy or a girl? And reflex, I'm like, I didn't even think reflex. I lifted up the tail to look and I was like, oh, too late. And I got sprayed. Sprayed right there. It was just waiting. Yeah. it wasn't waiting. It was, yeah, it was natural thing to do. Natural, yeah. Fortunately for everybody, I was outside the office, not inside. Oh. So I had to shower and they had to hose off the outside of the building. And that's a mistake. Steep learning curve. I won't make that mistake again if it ever happens. Wow. So just as far as, the veterinary field in general, are there any recent innovations or technologies that you know have really changed your work or the treatment of the animals? I, the biggest thing is probably having more specialty. Veterinarian veterinarians, because now if you have a specialized problem or significant problem, the diagnostics and the labs that we have available to us are so much better than when I started. Yeah, I bet. now we can run essentially the same blood work that you would have done if you were having your blood work done at Copley. We can run it and have results in an hour or two. Yep. When I started, if we were gonna try and do just routine blood work, initially we would draw the blood and then run it up to Copley Hospital and they would run it on their labs, and then we'd have to bring it back and make a translation to figure out what the human machines Oh, Had to do versus the Oh yeah. Animal'cause, yeah. Blood's blood. But there's still some differences. Yeah. So all the technology is so much better. last time I was in the dental office and they took my x-rays. I look at the x-ray machine that they use, and you know what, we're using the same one in our office. And the last time I was in the ophthalmologist and they test you for glaucoma, now they used a little thing that looks like a gun in your eye. I don't know if you've had that. yeah. I was like, oh my goodness. Now I know what that little knob is on the top of mind. It's to hold it on your forehead if you're human. the technology. For all, whether you're veterinary or human Technology has improved so much. So before, when you would make a diagnosis of say, it's cancer, now you can be very specific and say it's this kind of cancer and, this is how it would be treated. Or if it, typically what you do is you send them off to the specialist who have the oncology, the treatments, and there's a lot of the same treatments that they might do for humans. there's radiation, there's chemo surgery, and we can do the surgery, but we can't do the other things. So yeah, that's the biggest advances is, and preventative medicines a lot better. there's vaccines. I mean, there are those that don't believe in vaccines, but, there's a lot less animals dying of disease because we do vaccinate, right? So cool. Alright, good. All right, let's do, let's do some rapid fire questions. You're in the hot seat. Sure. You're in the hot seat. These are gonna be easy for you. These are choices. All right. Which is the easier patient? A dog or a cat? probably a dog. Really? That's surprising. Yeah. Interesting. they, one is, you can predict how they're gonna move a little bit better and they don't typically move as fast. And if we know ahead of time. They get something so they can't bite. They get a muzzle. I'm sensing what the cat might do. Yeah. So the cats, a little more quickly. They're a foot, they're a foot long, but all four feet are dangerous. And, if we work very hard not to hit their panic point. Yeah. Would you rather deal with a skunk spray or porcupine quills? Porcupine quills. Just like the story you described. Yeah, exactly. it's over and it's controllable. Yeah. And there's no lingering odor. Memory. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Which do you prefer? Wet dog smell or horse barn to smell? Horse barn smell. Okay. We have four horses. Which phrase do you use more often? That's a good boy. Or who's a pretty kitty? probably That's a good boy. Okay. I probably see more dogs. Yeah. And cats. But it's close. Yep. Dog in a backpack or cat in a stroller. dog in a stroller. They're easier to get out. That was dog in a backpack or cat in a stroller. So maybe cat in a stroller is your stroller. Yeah. You could tweak that or you tweaked it. Alright. A stroller. I've seen them come in both ways. I bet. I bet there's probably, there's a fair number of people that take their dogs and strollers up the wreck path. Yeah. Yes. I've seen that. Seen as well, Scooby Doo or Garfield. Scooby Doo. Yeah. Would you prefer a pet parent who Googled everything or one who says Just do whatever? That's a good question. just do whatever. Yeah. That's what I would think. Do people come in and be like, oh, I googled this. I know what this is. Yeah. And you know what, it's sometimes it's a help. A lot of the time it is because there's so much available and a lot of people, a lot of vets, it's yeah, Dr. Google's, it's such a pain, if people do their research right, and I don't discourage'em'cause it's not, God knows I might learn something. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. what I do say to people is, if you're gonna Google something. Make sure that you have a good source. Yeah. the easy way to say it is if you see that there's a university, involved, then chances are it's a more valid one. If it's, fluffy nose best.com, dot com, then it's the second fluffy reference. Then, it may not be your best, then it's somebody's personal opinion. All right. This will be a good one. Favorite post work activity? Tennis followed by beers on the deck or men's league hockey that would also involve beer. So I just wanted to put that in. right now I'd say the hockey. Okay. The food's better when they're grilling. All right, last one here. Would you rather train a new vet tech who has no idea what they're doing? Or teaching someone to ski on a powder day who has no idea what they're doing. Oh, the bad tech. It would just be too painful just being up there and, yeah. And although both are gonna learn bad habits, yeah. They're gonna learn my habits, which isn't necessarily the established technique. Yeah. Awesome. That was good rounds. Yeah, that was good rounds. we're gonna pivot. Just talk a little bit about Stowe and your time here. I know you talked about growing up here. May maybe just give us a little family history. Okay. how long were your parents here? And so I am not a woodchuck. Okay. I was actually born in Canada. So my parents, my dad and mom originally from. When my mom was from Calgary, my dad was in Toronto, and they were transferred to Montreal, or he was, and he was an avid skier. This is, post World War ii. He took up skiing and it was an avid skier and they toured around and didn't really like the Ians. They did kinda like the Eastern townships. They came to Stowe, they toured Stowe, they toured Sugar Bush. JP Peak didn't exist yet. Madonna or Smugglers didn't exist yet. And sugar Bush was another hour. And this is before the interstate, so they came to ow. And so I was, mom was skiing with me till she was something like. Seven months pregnant. And then the first year they were here, they stayed in a hotel. And then they rented a house for a year and then bought where we live now. So in Sto Hollow. Sto Hollow, yeah. They bought that house. Amazing spot in 1960. Not a bad view, right? Correct. No, it's not a bad view. No, not at all. Best cocktail hour view and still, yeah. Yeah. And there were a lot of people that enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah. And funny thing is, back when they bought one, there was only one realtor in town and there were only two lawyers in town. actually, and both of'em were busy at the closing and the fellow that dad bought the house from said, we can just share the lawyer. And dad being from the city said, maybe we don't do that and found somebody. and at that point it was a very rundown old farmhouse and they renovated it for 40 odd years that they were there. 50 years. And we've been renovating since we got in there. Yeah. And you were just doing weekends though. Yeah. So we were weekend people. Yeah. So I didn't go to school, I went to kindergarten here. I was the oldest of three kids. So at five years old, that meant there was a 4-year-old and a 1-year-old. And that year it was just easier for dad to do the commute like I did for school. So he would come down on either a Thursday night or Friday night and leave at the. Crack of dawn on Monday to go back to the office and we stayed here.'cause growing up, all our social life was always here. All my friends were here. Montrealers that were coming here. no. St kids just st still kids. So yeah. I've never, I haven't been up to Montreal for five years, 10 years. I just don't have much up there. And if I go to a high school reunion, I know way more.'cause Lely was two years younger than me. I, I guess it's a lot. It's a 30 year story now. But people didn't quite know what age I was.'cause I had friends that were a couple years older, a couple years younger. Yeah. I was able to get into the nail and the knees. I. Back then. A little bit ahead of time. Yes. And then when did you get here full time? we moved here. I think I was 18, 19 when my parents, we immigrated. Yeah. Made this, I had my green card for a bunch of years. Yeah. But always back and forth before that to go skiing and stuff. Yeah. we were, once I was in college, I was, I worked a couple summers in the city in Montreal. Yeah. Yep. And then one summer I spent out west, but I only spent half the summer. Yep. I made enough money working on the oil rigs that I didn't have to, I made enough for a year of college. Like I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. And it was much nicer here. So I spent the rest of the summer working for Paul Percy. Nice. Wow. Great stories. you've been here a long time, so I know the inside of a lot of the barns in town. Yeah. I filled them all with hay. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. So how have you seen stow change through those years? what was it like back in those days versus these days? every era has its change. this has always been a tourist town. You look back at pictures of the turn of the century and there were people coming here for the summer. It wasn't a winter Yeah. Location, the. people took in guests or, the big hotels. There were, two or three of those, then ins started popping up and those were all converted farmhouses. then people started building motels and the innkeepers probably weren't too happy about the motels coming. Motels were here and then people started doing condos. Probably the motel people weren't happy about that. Then some of the condos or some of the places started putting up timeshare, which condo, motel and hotel people weren't too happy about, I'm sure. And now, look at its Airbnb and short term rental, I guess is the term, right? Yep. And everything has its time. Yeah. And there's ups and downs to both sides, right? For sure. We have a lot more people here. that's sometimes good for the economy at times and people didn't use to complain about traffic. although growing up, if you weren't in your car and outta the parking lot by three 30, you might be sitting in the one parking lot for an hour To get out. And people forget, you used to have to pay for parking here too, up at the mountain, way back in the day. Yeah, I had to, I had heard that, I never heard that. I heard that. So I've, That had to have stopped Cool history there. I just remember as a really little kid, you, whoever was directing the traffic, you gave'em a quarter. I think that's what it was. Yeah. I never had to pay, I was the kid. I was lucky enough, I grew up skiing when there was still, books of tickets. And the gondola didn't exist. And, I can remember learning to ski on Toll House and, all the characters. And one of my memories, and it wasn't that. Exciting at the time, but you look back at it, I think I was probably seven or eight. My brother was a year younger and dad said We're gonna go and ski the Perry Merrill. And that was like a Woods Trail back then. Yeah.'cause the Gola wasn't up. And the fellow that was skiing with us was a, an older gentleman. Shirt and tie and a pipe. And we skied the per marial and the fellow was Charlie Lorde. Wow. Awesome. and that's best guy. We used to ski with him, at that age we had no idea that he was the guy who He was. Yeah. He was the guy that was in charge of cutting some of the trails. That's amazing. He's gonna start the mountain. Yeah. Wow. Good. You had a lot of great times here. Yeah. Good memories and stuff. Yeah. And there's a lot of'em that I can't say I know. Can, I don't wanna say you can't name names. I know. Yeah. Can't name names. Once the mics go off, that's usually with the juicy stuff come, comes about, come out. And I gotta believe in hollow where you were. It must have been much quieter. oh, as very few homes. when we were really little, I think there were seven or eight still working farms up there. Oh wow. Wow. And, none left. and if you go around that three mile loop, there were eight houses. Yep. And. All dairy farms. All dairy farms. Well, there were, there were one or two houses that were not farmhouses. Or, hadn't had not been farmhouses. But it was most, it was a pretty Still hollow was the wrong side of the tracks back in the early days, right? Yep. It's like the wild west. No, it was pretty quiet when somebody drove by. You knew who it was. Yeah. And the, you knew when somebody went through the Covered bridge because the boards weren't bolted down. yeah. And that's a little that for Frost heaves. So that's a little ways away too. Yeah. It was the other side and you could hear it. Yeah, you could hear that. So you knew when somebody went through the knot. Amazing. Yeah. wow. Were people hiking Pinnacle back then? That's question. I know when Pinnacle got cut. The Pinnacle Trail. Yes. There was a pinnacle trail. There was, but it didn't start where it does now. So if you go up to the Pinnacle Meadows Yeah. There's a trail. If you went off to the left, it goes down to what was the Zuber blueberry farm. Yeah. and now it's, Carrie Sudo has, yep. Yeah. So that was where the Pinnacle Trail was, and you actually walked through the yard to go up. Oh, wow. Wow. But people, if dozen people hiked the pinnacle in those days, that was a busy In a week. Yeah. In a week. That was a busy week. and then because of the traffic going up, it, and the Zoomers didn't really want that ma it got a little more popular. Yeah. Yeah. Not everybody was, they rerouted it the way they rerouted it. Yeah. Yep. And. Quite honestly, from our perspective or my perspective, if we saw three cars in the Pinnacle parking lot, it was a busy day and we'd hike another day, right? when we were building our barn, somebody decide it was one of those really busy, beautiful days and somebody parked at the end of our driveway and the guy in charge of our crew went down and now he's six foot four and said, I don't think you wanna be parking here. I'm not sure that the guy stopped till he got back to New York City. Yeah. Private property. Yeah. Yeah. otherwise yeah. It's everybody's view. Yeah. Totally. And the Pinnacle Trail, I think even when it's busy, it's still beautiful. Sure is great. Bang for the buck. Sure is. Yeah. But they used to fly, oh hang gliders off that too. Don Posty, probably Posty. Yep. Chris Curtis Posty. Chris Curtis, Lou Cody, Lou Cody. Yep. Swanson, I'm trying to remember his first name. Not Reverend Rick. A different Swanson. and Bill Westerman was one of them too. Okay. And they had, they were, they would drive a pickup truck from the zoos partway up. It was an old logging road. Wow. And then lug them the rest of the way up. That'd be quite an experience. I know. Yeah. Hand gliding off the pinnacle. Oh yeah. Love to see. That'd be pretty sick, but there were more fields then too. Yeah, That's what I was wondering, where you land. Yeah. that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Very cool. So Greg, what would you say is your hope for STO in the next five to 10 years? Ooh, that's a tough one. everybody has their pet. What would we like or what do we not wanna see anymore? And I never, I'd never quite honestly thought about that. Would I like it to be less crowded? would I like it to be when it wasn't crowded like I was a kid and I could ride my horses wherever I wanted to go and I was the only one that would ride a bicycle around the three mile loop maybe. But, With the influx of people, the restaurant choices are really good. Yeah. good point. People complain about Vail, but the grooming, the things that are available. Yeah. I don't mind the parking I parked down at the touring center. Yeah. Yeah. It's a nice ski down last. We talk about that a lot. It is a nice ski. I'll be honest. I, the derby the, not this past year, but the year before I got up there getting ready to go up. You know how they had the little timer things? Yeah. I looked and I was like, oh, I don't have it. It must have fallen outta my car. So I had to ride the shuttle back down, back up. My round trip was less than 20 minutes. Yeah. the people can complain about it, Yep. Tell people, meet your buddies where you're getting your cappuccinos and. Pool up. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good attitude. Yeah, good point. I think, the short term rentals, we had a short term rental for a gazillion years. I think, everything ends up controlling cells. They'll figure out something. Yeah. It's another era. Yeah. Like you said before with the Yeah. These things come and wave each thing come and change. And, I think as long as the regulations for them are, when we had ours, we made sure that if it turned into a hotel other than a sprinkler system, we would've been okay. Yeah. And I think that's maybe something that, that's a way of making sure everything works and reasonable. Yeah. All right. otherwise, what could be better? We got. Okay. Over the years with all the changes, we got better mountain biking. We got great cross country skiing. We've got, the mountain people will complain, but it's also still, it still, it's still there. It's still there. And it's still spinning. Just like this year. Still. Great. You can still ski down on snow. Yep. Yep. On almost all the trails all year long, Yep. It's all relative. It's a good outlook. Yep. Yeah. I like the outlook. Yep. Alright, Greg, we do finish all of our episodes with one question. If STO did not exist, where would you be living? I have no idea what he's gonna say. since other people have heard me say this all the time, and it might have changed in the last month or two, but I've said if I weren't living in sto, my brother lives out in Jackson Hole and I've been out there a lot of times and all the different seasons. I think I'd be living out there. I'm not sure I could afford it now, but I tell people, oh, all the money in the world, this is the crash. you crash with your brother. Yeah, that's it. I tell people the difference is here, if you wanna mow your lawn in July, you do out there. If you wanna mow your lawn in July, you have to water your lawn. awesome. Good stuff. yeah, if you were a vet out there, I suppose maybe buffalo bison, you could walk on. I do. I would elk. Yeah. Yeah. Grizzly bears. Yeah. I actually, I've got one of those tranquilizer guns. Good practice. So cool. that'll do it. Thanks a lot for joining us, Greg. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. That was great. Thank you. Yep. Hope you enjoyed that episode of the Octagon Podcast. Remember to like us on Instagram and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. See you next time.