Season 2: #5 Joey Davis: The Art of Tracking Whitetail Deer

This week we sat down with 7th generation Stowe resident Joey Davis who is considered one of the premier whitetail deer trackers in the region. Deer hunting in Stowe and throughout the State of Vermont is on the decline but Joey is keeping the tradition alive by creating Northwoods Whitetails with past Octagon guest Dustin Martin. When not on the elusive hunt for a big woods whitetail buck Joey operates Pinnacle Painting which he started right out of high school. He has grown the business into a 20 employee plus operation and brings a unique perspective of being a small business owner in Stowe

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This episode of the Octagon Podcast is brought to you in part by Archery Close and Union Bank. Hey, this is Chris and Taste from Archery Clothes, your go-to boutique. For men's and women's fashion, we carry a curated selection of clothing, footwear, and gifts from unique and emerging brands. We're proud to sponsor the Octagon and even prouder to be local business owners here in Stowe. We love how the Octagon captures the history and characters of this incredible town. After coming off the slopes or the trails, stop by archery close. Located at 1650 Mountain Road in Stowe. Open seven days a week, or always open online@archeryclose.com. Since 1891, union Bank has made banking a little bit easier and more convenient for you by investing in the success of its local community. Your community headquartered in Mooresville Union Bank has 18 branches and three loan centers throughout Northern Vermont and New Hampshire. Union Bank is a proud supporter of the Octagon Podcast, as well as many fantastic community oriented endeavors such as the STO Trails Partnership, the Vermont Ski and Snowboard Museum, and the STO Land Trust to name a few of the over 200 nonprofits they work with. To learn more, go to ub local.com. Welcome listeners to the Octagon Podcast, where we explore the stories, people, and places that make Stover Vermont so legendary. I'm your host, Ted Thorndyke, joined by my co-host of Mike Carey. We are excited to introduce our guest today, Joey Davis. Joey is a seventh generation stow resident and considered one of their premier whitetail deer trackers in the region. Deer hunting and STO and throughout the state of Vermont is on the decline, but Joey is keeping the traditional eye by creating Northwoods whitetails with past octagon guest dust in Martin. When not on the elusive hunt for big woods's white tail buck. Joey operates Pinnacle Painting, which he started right out of high school. He has grown the business into a 20 employee plus operation and brings a unique perspective of being a small business owner here in Stowe. Welcome Joey. How's it going guys? Welcome. I see Joey looking out the window at some deer running around. I know. He was telling me I could shoot something right off my back deck here. Let's drive. I should have added it in the intro. What you're really known for is we were high school hockey teammates. Ah, 1999, division two state champions. I was just in the ice rink yesterday for the first time in probably a year. Yeah. My kid was in there with Carrie's kid. Yep. And I said, cash, you see that sign up there? I said, that's right. Yeah. Good times. What's your favorite quote from Coach Massey? Oh man, there's a ton of'em. That guy was. That guy was something else. Different breed. It was, he was a motivator. he molded who we ultimately became, I would say a hundred percent. Yeah. I still see players around all these years later. Rubber, neck, rubber, necking. Oh yeah. 5:00 AM practices. Yeah. Yeah. The old Jackson Arena do it arena. The Jackson Arena. The Jackson Arena. Oh yeah. That was good times. Yeah. You wanted to make sure you clean the locker room when you're done. Otherwise you're dressed outside at 4 45. Yeah. He'd lock him. He'd lock the, at zero degrees, he'd lock'em if we left trash in there. Yeah. Yeah. You woke up quickly. Five alarms. Yeah. But Yeah, Joey, let's just jump right in. obviously a big focus of this, this episode is deer hunting. obviously you're a passionate deer hunter. Could you maybe just tell us how did you first get into it? just big part of your family culture? Yeah. I would say that my family, grew up around it. I grew up around it. They were weekend warrior deer hunters. Basically just putting meat into the freezer. Yeah. And getting outside. And that's what they did. And that's what I did. I wasn't much of a deer hunter back then. I was more of like a waterfowl hunter. And, my love for it came from a friend of mine whose father was very into it. And then seeing all the local bucks hang down there, the chicken barns, Eric Adams and those guys. I basically was like, I want to do that right, and I didn't get into it until later. In high school. Oh, really? Yeah. I wasn't into it early. I just assumed, eight years old, no. Going out with dad and doing all that. I didn't shoot, I didn't shoot my first buck until I was like seven 17. I did not know that. Yeah. Like people think that I'm, I'm, I am into it, right? Yep. But it was, for me, it was when high school got done right. And I created my own business here in sto. What is that next thing? Like you spoke of hockey, right? We won the championship. You worked. Your tail off. To win that championship. And for me, I could relate that to deer hunting. I could work my tail off to achieve that same success. Yeah. And I've often talked about it before on our podcast. It's in everybody deer hunting, and it's especially in the athletic people, right? The people that have drive to succeed at whatever they do, and it's. Adventurous. It's it's very passion oriented, right? and you work, you get your tail whooped and you get back up and you do it again, and you do it again, and you do it again. And it's mentally, physically exhausting the way that we do it. Yeah, It's not like deer hunting the way that you see it on tv. It's nothing like that. any day you're on top of a 3000 foot mountain tracking box over the other side. And at the end of the day, if you don't catch up to'em, you're coming back up over. It's in every athlete. if you can separate the difference between the killing part For food, it's not easy to do, but you can do it. Yeah. If you eat meat, you can do it. Killing is the part that none of us actually enjoy. That's not something that any of us care to do. Yeah. It's just. and were you always doing this style of hunting, this sort of tracking hunting right from the get go? Is that what From the get go? Right from the get go. from, so you're like, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it this way Right from the get go. I jumped out of the gate, got into this, I went to Maine, I went to Ontario and Ontario. It's hard to describe, but it's a place where there's nothing around. it's a place where you have to be on your a game. You're 40 something miles from nowhere. Your truck breaks down, you're screwed. You get lost. You're done, right? Yeah. yeah. High stakes. it is. but you test yourself every day that you're out there. you prove to yourself that you can do it or you don't. that's ultimately. The dictator between success and failure in that style of hunting is having the mindset to do it. what we're about trying to promote people to get into is that style. It's nothing that you see on tv, right? hunting around here or something like that. It's just not the same. Yeah. Yeah, you're not walking down West Hill Road. I have before, but I wouldn't do it today. And and Joey, for any listeners that really know nothing about hunting or tracking, maybe just give a quick overview of what is tracking, what does the average day look like? The average day of tracking is getting up, three, four o'clock in the morning. Cruising roads, trying to find a. A buck track of size. some people that doesn't matter just needs to be a buck track. Or some people they focus on bigger ones. My style is, I like to shoot the biggest buck that I can possibly find. Yeah. usually when you strike off at daylight, you don't know where that deer's gonna go. You got, it's the fun of that. that's exactly the unknown, the adventure part of it. I've taken bucks from. The trout club and ended up on Greg Hill. Wow. All the way around the reservoir. He swam part of it and I had to go up past canoe access to get across and then picked him up on the other side. wow. As a crow flies, it's not too far, but up and down it's probably, I don't know, I'd say eight miles. Yeah. elevation gain too, up and down. Yeah. and the track. W is it mud? Is it snow is or is it just you just know what you're looking for. It's all, do I see tracks everywhere? Yeah. It's all snow related. Okay. Snow. Yeah. And typically you're looking for a buck track that's got, that's three inches wide by three inches long, at least a 200 pound buck track. Yeah. And you can differentiate him between every other deer track there is.'cause not everyone's that size. Yeah. Oh, and then you gotta figure out. When was the track made? Yeah. yep. The age of it. Yeah. it's all part of the game, right? it's all part of the process, if you will. And the more that you do it, the more that you learn about it, you understand why he's doing what he's doing and when he's doing it. And that's ultimately what you are trying to figure out as you go to potentially take that shot. Yeah. And are most dear active? At night and then bedding down during the day. What's the rhythm of that? are you, or are you thinking, I'm gonna come across this at any time? There's times where you're gonna come across it any time, but there's certain points throughout the month of November where they'll be breeding that they'll put more miles on than another. So when you get to the beginning part of November, a lot of them don't move nearly as much. They're swinging down off the tops of the mountains, they're checking for dough, and then they're going right back up and they're laying on their belly. When you get into the middle of November, all hell, all bets are off. Yeah. All hell breaks loose. They're a deer. That could be, right here on top of Hall Worcester Brown that we're looking at. Could be right down here. chasing doe. that's five miles, because like time's running out for him. Yeah. Yeah. he's Time's running out. Yeah. He's, he's looking for love. Yeah. And he's. He's got one job to do. and that's, yeah. Really to survive, to eat and to breed. Yeah. that's his thing is survival. Wow. And, it's pretty wild. And then at the tail end of November, it's all about putting feedback on and And then they slow down a little bit. So out of all your tracking stories, you must have one that sticks out. I really, if you could share that. I really don't. they're all so unique. Yeah, Yeah. I've, I will say, I took one 14 miles one day and missed him twice and picked him back up the next morning and took him six miles on a straight line. He got onto a dough, and the dough was headed to migrate. I know this because past experience, he, she held the same elevation. She held 2300 feet. For six miles until I caught up with him and he was just dogging her. And, where was this? This was up north. Yeah. Yeah. We sleep at that. Yeah. Yeah. And, ended up catching up with him and ended up shooting him. And he was a 200 plus pound Vermont buck. But every one of'em is different. Yeah. I could tell you stories for days On these ridges, Yeah. Sure. That, that, were just as much fun as any of them. Yeah. You enjoy it all. Yeah. Yeah. So that's cool. And I know hunting season, did it just start today? Both season, bow season. Do you do that too? I do. Okay. I do not. Is that different? It is. I'm not as passionate about it. Okay. it's not nearly as much fun to me. Yeah. if I'm gonna do something, there's gotta be some sort of IT venture or keep me on my toes. Yeah. I'm not a person that sits around well. Yeah. So if you're bow hunting, you're sitting waiting. Tradition. Traditional. Traditional. Yeah. yeah. And for me, I've gotta target a specific buck of size and there's just not that many of'em around here. yeah. Ones that you can actually get on that aren't in posted property or whatnot. Yeah. Which is increased, I would imagine. Oh, like crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So on that note, we're looking at all these ridges around Stowe, what was the hunting scene like in sto? Growing up back then? Yeah, back then and just everybody did it for the most part, right? Like it was nothing to see. Opening day of rifle season, there would be people all over the ridges. And it was a much friendlier hunting community or hunting. However you wanna label that. the hunting community or the community as a whole Community? Everybody community did a whole accepted hunting. Got it. I should say the people that didn't hunt accepted it. Yeah. Got it. there was a way station right in the center of town when I was a kid. Oh, wow. Dave Demer had a, had right there at the gas station where the, yeah. The pit is like the, yeah. Avocado pit. Avocado pit, Yeah. I remember going there for gas out there, Dave Demerit. Yeah. You'd go and weigh your deer and. And it was nothing for people to just see a deer in the back of a truck and everybody come right up. Oh, how'd you get it? Tell me the story. Tell you the story. Probably a buzz around town, right? Oh, did you hear caught? What? Everybody, you know that got one, they have their tailgate down so people could see it. And today, now close the tailgate and put a foot out the door. Yeah. It is what it is, I guess times change. Yeah. so for someone that's against hunting, how would you speak to them about the value of it and the, because I think that is a thing, right? Like people think of it as just people walking on the street and just shooting a deer just for the joy of shooting the deer. Yeah. it, it's tough to relay that to a non hunter, right? Until a non hunter really experiences it.'cause it's not just pulling up and shooting a deer, right? I got one. It just, there's no fun in that, right? There's no sport in that. That's not how deer should be killed. it's tough to relay that to a non hunter unless you get'em out to. In there, in the field and show them how, feel it, feel what that feels like. Yeah. Yeah. Be in the woods and killing's. Not for everybody, right? It is the necessary evil that comes with it. If you can separate the difference between it and food. You're good to go. there's a lot of non hunters in this town now. Versus what was, I will say that there is still a lot of good people that are non-hunters that allow people to hunt on their land. there's a pile of land that's wide open that's privately owned That, that's accessible for people. Yep. But then again, there's groups that definitely are highly opposed to it. you see it with what's going on with all the bears right now and, the whole protect our wildlife stuff. If you own land and you're trying to protect all the wildlife, you're not doing it any favors. Yeah. It's like owning a huge woodlot and not cutting any trees off of it. All you're doing is killing it. Yeah. And the same thing with the animals, if they overpopulate Yeah. Until they're gonna do is starve themselves out of food and the next thing you know, they're down here in everybody's garbage. Yeah. Yeah. Or breaking into houses with recently doing cars. Yeah. They're trying to survive. Yeah. So there, there's a healthy carrying capacity. Yeah, for sure. There's wildlife and hunting aids that there's a healthy mix and a lot of that takes place in this town where they don't, there's an organization that just does not want bears being shot. And it's a fine line, right? Yeah. if you don't, if you don't shoot'em, if you don't harvest them quietly. Where the public doesn't see it. ethically, they start getting run over, they start getting dispatched because they're problem bearers. Yeah. as to where if they change the laws around here just a little bit in Vermont, a lot of that can go away. And it doesn't have to be, he said, she said, per se, with, what's going on. You'll see less bears. When I grew up as a kid, we didn't ever see bears. I know. One or two you'd see'em in the wild. Yeah. Yeah. Before you'd see'em. And that was it, And I was like, oh, I saw a bear today. It was a big deal away. It feels like the last five years. Yeah. It just skyrocketed. Yeah. You go over here behind ESE and look on the hill. Yeah. It's just a pile of garbage over the bank from where the bears are, pulling it all out of rim rocks and dragging it down the bank. And it's just not a horn too, Yeah. Everywhere. Yeah. That SOW that was in the Matterhorn. Yeah. She ended up getting shot here just a little while ago and it stirred up a huge uproar. Yeah. But she's part of the problem, right? not that anybody wants to see a bear killed with the Cubs, but she's teaching her young ones that same trait and they're just gonna continue doing it. But somewhere you gotta go to the top of the chain. Yeah. Yeah. Put'em back into the wild where they belong. Yeah. Rather than people's backyards. Do you hunt bears? I don't, no. Yeah. Just your, I don't, yeah. I have zero interest in shooting a bear, but I say that I will shoot one. I tried to shoot one here just the other night. It was just too dark. he's very brave. He is out there quite a bit on my lawn, right? he's out there with my kids. He's out there with my dog. He's that tame, and That's not normal behavior. Yeah. The behavior's changing. Yeah, for sure. They should have some fear of God into'em. They used to run the other way. Yeah. I've seen a mountain biking and they just stare at, it's a stare off between me and the bear. Yeah. Yeah. And they'll hold their own especially Yeah. A garbage can, right? i's shoot dozens of videos around here at construction sites where they'll sit there and they'll woof. They'll bluff, charge, guys sitting there video and right in the middle of the D. Can you eat bear? Can anybody eat? Bear a bear? You actually, no. It actually is phenomenal. If you smoke it, it tastes just like ham. It's very good. Yeah. There's a lot of people that prefer over venison, huh? But probably all how you prepare it too, imagine. it's the bears eating, rim rocks, trash. Probably doesn't taste as good as not wild feed. no, definitely not. But they're here, right? Yeah. Oh, they're definitely here. Yep. Yep. Yeah. we talked about it with Dustin a little bit. Could you tell us a little bit about Northwood's White Tails, what it is? Why did you start it? how's that all going? I've seen some videos and anybody who hasn't seen the YouTube channel, Northwood's White Tails awesome content. I appreciate that. Yeah. Northwood's White Tails was basically, started by myself and Dustin and a couple other guys just to influence young hunters. Yep. it's tough to get kids out there. You know how it is. There's so much form to do now, especially like in this town, right? If we could inspire people through social media and YouTube and stuff like that's where most of these kids spend their time seeing this stuff. Maybe we could get them outside, right? Protect what we love. And it's definitely working. we started doing a podcast and everything else, and the podcast, this is actually. Big. It was huge. it was top 40. Yeah. I've listened to most of them, but big motivation to start this. Yeah. Yeah. Great stuff, but just getting'em outside and it's tough. when we grew up as kids, there was fishing derbies throughout the entire summer. We'd go to Paul Percy's and have a fishing derby in the pond. Or Commodore. Yeah. Commodore. Yeah. Now you don't see any of that at all. Yeah. There's nothing like that for these kids. Yeah. And if they're not exposed to it. They'll never do it. Yeah. It's not their fault, right? No, it's not it really comes down to, I don't wanna say it comes down to mom and dad, but it comes down to somebody that takes the time to take them out there or to show them this way. It's in everybody, like I mentioned before. It's just giving them the opportunity to get out there and do. Yeah. Because you guys know, I'm sure you love to fish. Yeah. When you get out there Yeah. You're catching fish. What's not to like about it? Yeah. it's just like hiking to the top of a 3000 foot mountain. Yeah. You absolutely love it. You love how you feel. By the time you get to the top, just imagine falling a buck track to the top and a gun in your hand. Yeah. Yeah. and then meet. Meat for a year. Yeah. Yeah. probably the healthiest meat you could eat. Yep, it is. And fish. Yeah. Yeah. No, all that. And really what's the healthiest thing for us? Exercise. Yep. And being outside. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you're bringing up a really good points. It's like when you do those things, you have this bond with nature. You get to really learn how nature works and I agree. Like we're losing that. that sort of a hundred percent balance between us and nature and the ecosystem Yeah. And all of that and For sure. Yeah. And it's just getting out there and experiencing it. And to all the parents that. don't know anything about the outdoors. Just reach out to someone like myself or Dustin or someone that they know Hunts. Yeah. And just get those kids outside. Or get them outside even. Are there classes? Can you, is, does anybody teach hunting? The, the sport of hunting? Not really. Not really. So unless you have a family member or somebody think that's lacking a little bit there it is. It is. That's lacking a little bit. You can go to places of Maine, right? Where they hold these outdoor classes in high school and they'll teach you all of this stuff, right? survival skills. Yeah. Rock climbing, deer hunting, how to prepare. Food, wild game, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Vermont locks in that. Yeah. So maybe we need a kids camp, like a absolutely week camp, like in the woods. let's learn what food could you eat if you're stuck in the woods? Hundred percent. What mushrooms are good. just even all the little things. How to make a fire. Yeah, for sure. Because not everybody knows how to do that. Kind of thing. I understand it seems simple, but it's not. Yeah. There was certain camps, like I remember going to a camp when I was young, it was called Buck Lake up here in Hardwick. You go for a week long camp, you learn how to canoe and kayak and fish and shoot and all this stuff. And I believe they still do it, but it's not something some of these schools could incorporate more Yes. Into, yeah. What you're doing. yeah. No, I totally agree. So obviously you talk about the evolution to. into tracking. Would you say your philosophy on hunting has changed over the years? now that you're sitting here today, you talk about shooting your first buck at 17, throughout that whole journey, do you still see it the same way you're like, I feel exactly the same about hunting as I do when I was 17? I don't necessarily, I have my way that I want to do it, and that's just the adventure part of me. Yeah. when I was younger I was a lot more gung-ho about getting out there. getting out there. And life changes, Yeah. Work, family responsibilities. But when it comes to snow on the ground, no. My passion still flies the same. I'm gonna run these ridges and every other ridge in between here and up north. It's just what I want to do. Yeah. I feel phenomenal by the time I'm done doing it and I want more of it. Yeah. Because it's short, right? The season short, yeah. Is Maine and New Hampshire, they have different seasons or same, it all all kind comes together in month together. Yeah. Month of November. Is the hunting easier or better? In Maine or New Hampshire. It's definitely a lot harder here than it is in New Hampshire. Harder here in Maine. Yeah. Yeah. There's less deer, there's less quality here. Less quality. It's a little bit harder here versus New Hampshire where there's more quality. And Maine there's more quality, more land to do it on. Yeah. Yeah. all these deer, believe it or not, that live way up high in these mountains, they're all townies come winter. They all live down here. yeah. Yeah. It's Maine is, western Maine. There's 4,000 foot mountains everywhere. Big country. But it would seem like A place like Maine Is more expansive though. Yeah. Harder to find them. Yeah. I don't know. They're everywhere. Yeah. They're just more, yeah, higher population. Yeah. When you get into the North Maine woods, you get less deer per square mile, but still you can find them. Especially if you get the conditions to do it. If you get snow. Yeah. You probably enjoy that challenge though, of going to a place Exactly where there's lower deer density. That's exactly, because then when you get one. And when it's lower deer density, that's when you're gonna find your biggest deer. Yep.'cause they're controlling a whole mountaintop. They're, yeah, they're, they're just a different animal, different, A lot of these places where there's heavy snow load during the winter, that's where you're gonna find your biggest. Biggest buck. Just they can navigate that well. Yeah. They're the strongest deer that there is. They're the strongest bodied animals because they need to survive the winter. Yeah. So these heavy snow areas, if you know'em, you target'em. They're low deer densities, but that's where you're gonna find strongest, biggest white tails. Yep. Do they coexist with moose? They do. Do they? Yeah. Yep. And a lot of the people, so you could find a moose and a deer kind of cohabitating all the time. Really all the time. Especially in deer, moose yards, like in the springtime we'll find where bucks have stayed right in there. They'll get the moose pass and, yep. Yep. That's cool. Yeah. What about you Teddy? What about me? What about the deer hunting for you? How'd you get into it? Oh, yeah. No, dude, I'd love to share that. it's been an interesting journey for me, for sure. I was actually getting sober about 11 years ago, and I suddenly had a lot of time on my hands and I was like, man, I love hiking, but I can't hike the pinnacle anymore. this is not gonna work. I was just looking for something new. I'd always been interested in hunting. I remember my mom got me a big bucks the Benoit way, and I was just fascinated by, those stories in the adventure. And then, obviously I knew you hunted and, I think I was looking on Facebook. I saw a pile of moose antler and all this. And I was like, what's this all about? because I knew nothing, didn't grow up in hunting, family. I'd never even shot a gun. so I reached out to you and was like, Hey, I'm thinking of giving this a go. Don't. Really know what it's all about. And yeah, you got me set up with Deer Stand Harness. my buddy Tim gave me a bow and, yeah. And I just started the journey. I did bow hunting just for, probably the first few years.'cause I was like, I still wasn't comfortable shooting a gun. Yeah. Yeah. just wasn't part of growing up and, deer hunting along with shed hunting. It's probably my biggest passion. That's what Ted's really passionate about. Why do you like it so much? The antlers. Oh, how much time you got? great time to be in the woods. April, may. People complain. I'm like, that's my favorite time of year. Yeah. I remember first shed hunt. I went on in the Worcester Range. I was just, there was no people. And there was just these high elevation beaver ponds. it was a spiritual experience for me. Yeah. just learning more about the animals that you never see. They're cool animals, right? Yeah. You never see'em. Rarely. Yeah. Rarely. And I was just, I was gonna find a moose handler, took me a few years. and then, yeah, you just kept sending me GPS coordinates. oh, there's this ridge in Belvedere. Wonder what that's like. Check it out. Yeah. I, it's just how it makes me feel. you get exercise, I'm using my brain, I'm checking out maps. Pushing your limits. Push. Oh, pushing limits. Big time adventure. Yeah. And when you're out there 10 miles, like you gotta be confident in yourself And your skills. Yeah. And, yeah, I think I love hiking. It's just hiking off trail. Yeah. And, Have you gotten better at it, do you think? A hundred percent. Yeah.'cause I bother him. I feel like you find antlers a lot now. That's what I like to hear. I bother. Maybe you just tell me You do. I bother him all the time. Where he where you think they're hanging out? Yeah. he'll, he's been very generous. He gives me some zones and, you get a little bit of a nose for it. It's not the easiest region to do it. Yeah. So Beaver Ponds is high elevation. Beaver Ponds are, is a, I have delivered for me. For sure. High elevation. It used to be like where Ted's talking about, there used to be dozens of moose bowls that yarded up there. Maybe nothing will walk outta there with 10 aler a day. yeah. And the population slowly died off, but there's still somewhere around a hundred percent w Worcester range is becoming my, I try and know every inch of that range. it's probably similar to you like hunting up north. I enjoy. Yeah, that there's actually not a ton out there. So if I do find one, found a matching set this spring, that's a win. I'm not gonna say where, but no, don't say where. Definitely never do. But that's a win. You know what I mean? Hundred percent. Like you accomplish something and even if you don't find one, it's a win.'cause I'm going hiking. I'm getting exercise. Yeah. I'm away from people. This is what May, April, may, April. May, April, may. Really the elevation for everything. All the vegetation comes in. Majestic Mount Mansfield embodies the spirit of Stowe heritage. And we're proud to present the Octagon Podcast, a true reflection of our amazing community. Stowe Living is honored to sponsor this podcast. We're helping you live your best life daily with stunning furniture, unique design, kitchenwares, thoughtful gifts sourced from around the world. Thank you Stowe for your continued support of Stowe Living and the Octagon Podcast. When it comes to luxury real estate in Stowe Trust, Meg Kaufman of Land Vests, Christie's International Real Estate. Meg Kaufman knows the market inside and out. She's been a part of the Stowe community for over 20 years. Whether you're buying or selling, Meg Kaufman offers a concierge level of service. Taylor, just for you. Backed by the power of land vests and Christie's International. She brings proven success and local insight to every transaction, luxury real estate, local expertise. Meg Kaufman and Land Vests are the team you want on your side. Can you relate it to sports? can you relate it to hockey, busting, grinding, Yeah, no, I, and then getting the WA hundred percent. I think it's deep down you gotta have a passion for it. if you don't love being in the woods, if you don't love pushing the limits, if you're not afraid to get lost, I think, you gotta have that foundation. But if you do, yeah. It's just resilience. It is. it, it took me three, four years. That's, and I had people around me, they're like, you're crazy. What are you doing? I'm like, no, this is gonna happen. and you've got other people into doing it. Yeah. Yeah. you've got people going within whatnot. Yeah. Chris Galley. Yeah. Drag him along. But, yeah. And honestly, anybody out there listening that's, maybe struggling with addiction or mental health, I was doing other stuff too, therapy, a alcohol's anonymous. really forming that relationship with the outdoors and having that goal and. It's the healthiest place for us. It's the best, really healing for me. And, yeah, I was up on Mount Worcester actually, a couple weeks ago. Jumped a couple big ones up there. Nice. A moose running through the woods is about a Mack truck driving. Oh my goodness. Especially when they got paddles on their head. Totally. But, yeah, the deer hunting though, it's been a journey. Yeah. I think, probably at times I struggle with. The killing part, but, I'm coming full circle. Yeah. I'm feeling good about this year, getting hunting really out. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We, you muzzle loader antlerless and, gotta give a shout out to Mike Schneider. Yeah, he's been a big mentor. Nice. See along with you and Dustin and stuff. How'd the Turkey hunting go? The spring? We only went once and we were out there for a few hours. We saw nothing, and then we're driving home and we saw two massive ones in the field. So we got the map out. We're like, where's the access point? We get out there, we have our masks on, and we're just like, yeah, that's too close to the house. No, I'm kidding. Hi. That's fun. Yeah, that was my first time out, so that's cool. I'll go back out for sure. Yeah, go back. when you do get a deer. You'll be able to separate the difference, how hard you worked for it. Yep. A hundred percent. and just enjoying the process. Yeah. it's not a win or lose. It's, but just that's sticking with it. And, it's a journey. But yeah, no, it's been great. And like I said, when I first put the drink down and I was trying to create a new life, it's, I'm still an obsessive skier, Yeah, you getting up and going track and that's like me, chasing powder, but become a huge part of my life. That's good and always will be. So yeah, you're a better person. Thankful. Thankful to you for that. For sure. Yeah. You're a better person from it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no doubt about it. What's the, you talk about that and both of you, what's, what are you thinking about? Are you like clearheaded focused? is it that. When you're doing it, when you're doing it, Yeah. You've gotta like work's not in your brain. You're not thinking about other things. Are you just like it? It's not that in the zone. It's not that it isn't in the back of your mind, but you pretty much, if you want to be successful, you have to clear your head of it. Yeah. All of it, right? Yeah. You have to be thinking about what you're doing task at hand and where you're doing it. You can get extremely turned around in a lot of these places. Oh yeah. Doing it and, You can end up some bad scenarios, right? Like I know some guys that have had some very near death experiences doing it, right? Like we hear about hiking, hikers all the time go missing, right? Yep. It's not much difference. Not at all. So it's probably mentally tiring. It's as much mentally and physically challenging as that's the part that, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. Do you find you can. Shut it off though. thinking about kids or business or do you feel you've been doing it so long and you just love it so much? You are able to get into that mindset, you're human. It's tough to completely turn everything off. Especially family. You can't, you just can't do it. Yeah. And responsibilities at work. If I could close the doors the month of November, I would, but you don't. Like you still got,$10,000 payroll to pay at the end of the week or whatever it may be. Yeah. That doesn't go away. Wheels, you can't let the wheels fall off the bus, You'll never go on. Yeah. Yeah. You can't let the wheels fall off the bus, you definitely, I'm thankful that I have the crew that I do. Yeah. The people around me. support family wise. My wife. Yeah. that allows me to, she knew what she was signing up for. she did, she grew up in a hunting family, but she didn't know, she didn't know anything about hunting. She was a pageant girl. She was Miss Vermont. And, she hunts now. Oh, she does? Oh, she's into it. She's into it. I took her right over here on, on weeks hill. Yeah. I had permission at a place that's full of deer. Brought her up in a bow stand, hung a stand for her. And she thought it was the coolest thing in the world. Yeah. She had a dough and two fons walk right underneath her. Yeah, exactly. And she could separate the difference, right? At the, that point in time, she wasn't quite ready for deer hunting. She got down out of the stand. She's can I go try and pet one of those things? Sure. Honey, have at it. Take one of'em home. Yeah. And she got down out and she, she went over and. Yeah. From that point forward, she could separate the difference. She'd always eat venison, our family's bigger than a hundred. Sure. And, yeah, she shot a bigger buck than I have. Nice. Yeah, that's, yeah. She loves it. Yeah, she loves it. She'll do it on her own. I don't have to worry about her at all, Yeah, that's good. When would you get your kids into it? How old do you typically have to be? My kid's like ready to do it now. He's five years old, but, and he's ready to rock roll. Is he mentally ready? No, not at all. He doesn't know what he's doing, Yeah. And for any kid. He should mentally grasp what he's about to do before he does it. Yeah. Taking the life out of an animal is not easy. Yeah. Young kids that are 6, 7, 8, 10 years old that are shooting deer. You don't fully grasp the concept of what you have done at that age. Yeah, You gotta work into it, work for it, to really appreciate it. Yeah. Just grasp the importance of it. Respecting a little more maturity, that stuff. Yeah. Yep. Yep. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, it's not a small deal. No. It's not taking life. It's, and it's not for everybody. Like I know plenty of guys a hunt for a decade and they shoot their first deer and they're done. Really? Yeah. They didn't like the experience. Yeah. Yeah. Which I can understand. It's not easy. Yeah. But yeah. Do you think you have a more awareness of na? are you driving around you see oh, look at that bird, look at that. I find sometimes like it opens up, you really take note of nature around you, what's going on in touch. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you definitely do. The more time that you spend out there, the. The more in touch with nature you get, right? Yeah. A little bird. Even what he's doing, I find that more amazing. Yeah. The more you understand it and the behavior that comes with it from each animal. Yeah. yeah. It's just experience is all. It's, yeah. I think one of my favorite things is just when I'm driving around, I'll just look off at a ridge and I'm like, I'm gonna check that out. Amen to that too.'cause otherwise you're just, nothing wrong with hiking on trail. It's great, but it. I know for me, it like expanded my mind like, oh, cool. and that's the every night I'm on the maps. Yeah. And that's the adventure, right? You get to the top of the ridge and you look out and you're like, oh. What's over the next one? What's over the next one you, maybe there's a moose antler on that knob. I'm going over to that one, right? Not go. Nope. There's not. You gotta find a little more gas in the tank to get there and Yeah, no, for sure it does. And thick woods or woods, it's just different than being on a hiking trail. A hundred percent. It just is. It's a different feeling. Different feeling. You're not in your environment, you're their environment. A hundred percent. Yeah. it's a different feel and it's a cool feel, but, and it builds confidence when you can go into those zones and you can navigate and you can, be aware of back country safety, have all your supplies. I think it's, definitely build confidence for sure. Yeah, for sure. And especially for you right, skiing. Yep. back country skiing, it's the same thing. You feel plenty confident being on the ridge. Yep. Yep. A hundred percent and let alone the ground that you find to ski on when you're out there looking for deer or moose antlers. Yeah. Or whatever. Different. All it goes hand in hand. Different way to be in the woods. Yeah. Can you combine the two? Could you ski and hunt that? Do that. That's how you scout. Oh, he's smiling oh, I know a guy that you should have on your podcast that, that does it. Skis and hunts. Yeah. Yeah. Shed hunts not deer hunting. Oh, yeah. Like in April. Oh, he does deer hunt on him real if it snows in November. yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. That's like biathlon. Yeah. That's gonna be, I'd always wondered that too. He's an athlete and he's somebody you guys should have on your podcast. I didn't know he was deer hunting on his skis. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty cool. How come you haven't done that? I probably fall over a bunch. Knock the scope off. I dunno. Maybe you could give skiing a shot. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta ski down with a deer draped over you on your skis. Yeah, It's a fast way to cover ground. Yeah. Pass away. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Look at Ted, the wheels are turning. cool. I'd always wondered I was like, I wonder if people do this. I know. Yeah, they do. Tie it all in Teddy. Tie it all in. Yeah. Mind blowing right there for Ted. That'd be a cool graphic on a ski. We should talked to Nittle about that. There you go. At Nortica. Or maybe he's not there anymore. No, he's not. But Nittle is one, right? Yeah. Nittle is an athlete. College athlete. Yep. But four time whatever. All American. Yeah. And, he didn't come from a hunter background. Yep. His hunting background came from going down to the chicken barn and seeing the huge bucks from main hanging up on upside down in, that's what's that all about? Yeah. I want to do that. What's that all about? How do I do it? Yep. Yeah, that's where that came from. Yep. yeah. Cool. So we're gonna shift gears a little bit. Talk about work, unfortunately. Oh, it's sad, but, obviously STO it's grown a lot, it's a lot of development and, So you started your painting business, pinnacle Painting, was that right Outta high school? Kind of just take us through that journey and, what's it like now in this ever-growing development? And so that was right outta high school, I had done quite a few jobs before that, and. For me, I needed something that made me money, but allowed me to go to your hunting. A box allowed me to Yeah. Have flexibility. Yeah. and do what I want when I want, based around the outdoors. And that was something that I knew that I could do at a young age, and I just did it right. College for me would've been a waste of, yeah. Waste of my money. Yeah. And it would've been mine. It wouldn't have been, yeah. My old man's and, It would've just been a social event like it has for most, Let's be honest. Yeah. I'm staying quiet over here. I'm staying quiet over here. No, it just evolved from there. And growing up in this town, I knew everybody. You knew all the locals. You knew all the builders that grew up around the Siler and the John Steels because your dad's a builder. My old man's a builder, so you know. Like anything else, when you get into it, it's all about who you know and then they pass the work on to you. Give you an opportunity and you do right by them. And before you know it, you have 20 employees and yeah. Town has definitely evolved to a point where this is, it's a great place to work. Yeah. It's a tough place to. Live. I guess you could say traffic wise, right? Traffic's backed all the way up to Shaw's. Nobody likes to sit in traffic. It's not the ow that we know that we knew. 25, yeah. 30 years ago. High cost of living, but yeah. Yeah, it's a beautiful place and there's very few places like this in the Northeast at all, right? Yep. there's, it's unique. There is, even with all the development, it's still, yeah, it's a pretty cool town, right? There's not another town that I know of that's surrounded by 3000 foot mountains that has the recreational. Opportunities, if you wanna call it that. That's unbelievable. Yeah. That this town does, right? Yeah. And it's full of good people. Yep. Full of good people. A hundred percent, But a hundred percent, yeah. That's where business went and yeah, I've done it, I don't know, 22 years. 23 years. I'm sick of it. Time to time. Yeah. Oh yeah. Of course. But anything else, right? Yes. Pays the bills. You know what exactly, you make good money. Yeah. You get to do what you want. Yeah. You now a lot of good that comes with it, right? Oh, that's exactly it. yeah. So you're a Seventh generation for monitor. I've tried to get out here a couple times, I just can't seem to do it. So I gotta believe like your great grandparents probably were some of the first settlers in Stowe. Is that, yeah. So my great grandmother is. Related to the first person that settled in sto, a guy named by, Oliver. Lu. Lu. Yep. Lu Hill Road. Yep. Lu Hill Road. Yep. Yep. She was related to him in some way or another, right? Sto Hollow was once called Davisville. Like everywhere where, Tony Whitaker takes care of all that property where Loomis used to take Oh yeah. You know all that. What a that is. Yep. All of that whole entire bull up there by. you know it, but Oh yeah, I sure do. Sugar woods and the field up there was a potato patch and it's cool, they lived off the land. Yep. But like most of'em, they probably drank it away or whatever. Sold land off, make a dollar here or there, and Yeah. Passed it on down the line. But yeah. Seventh gener. Wow. they imagine what STO is today. That's probably would be if you could talk to them. That'd be shocked. Crazy. and there's still quite a few local names, right? Like the Moody's and the Pikes and the Percys and Yeah. There's still somewhere around, there's still quite a few of those around. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. But if they held onto all their land that they had back then Oh, Yeah, Adams probably from the mountain all the way, right? All the way. Yeah. It's probably all, yeah. Couple people. Yeah. Owned it all the Burts, yeah. So when I was growing up, I remember reading letter to the editor from your grandfather, oh boy, Sonny. And he would always sign it at the end, he'd say, Sonny Davis, your local woodchuck. Yeah. Could you tell our listeners. What's a woodchuck and do they still exist and still it would be a native Vermonter? Okay. yeah. My grandfather, he was wellknown for speaking his mind. You go to a sporting event, you would hear him right. he was a unique individual. he was a professional ball player. He was a professional skier. He was a. He was an athlete, grew up in this town. You know what I mean? Yeah. He, he pitched for the Boston Braves. and then the only reason he got out of it is'cause he started a family. Yeah. But, yeah, I can remember sporting events. He just wanted him to. Tone her down a little bit. He'd be behind. What was he writing to the newspaper? Just his opinion. Probably just like what a, yeah. Thoughts on or whatever. Yeah. May, maybe some new developments or something. Yeah. just getting his word out there. Yeah. Yeah. Always enjoyed. Yeah. He was builder and he was a builder in town, and then my father and uncle went into business with him and they were building houses and they, my father and uncle still build houses around here, but yeah. He was, he was a unit. Yeah, he was great. Great guy. He was, he was, one of those rare m Vermonters that are so hard to find. But yeah, he did commercials for. Camels cigarettes on the mountain. He was big into, yeah, you big into, patrol. Oh yeah. There's like a smoke, a camel ski down, ski chain clip skiing, back skiing backwards, smoking a cigarette, back in the day. What a stud man's man. Most interesting man in the world. Yeah, Yeah. I remember playing Little league and I remember I, I just hear this guy yelling. He's Joey, ya ain't gonna get a hit. Let's just swing the bat. Yeah. And I, but hey, get the bat off your shoulder life lesson right there. swing away. I remember being a young kid being out in the outfield and he'd be on home plate and he'd have one of those jumbo bats and he'd be hitting it. Yeah. Left, hitting it with one hand and we'd be up on the baseball field. the big field. Yeah. And just driving balls. Yep. Yeah. That's good time. Totally good times. Yep. Alright. Little rapid fire. Alright dude, it's rapid fire kick off. Question. Time kick off. You kick it off. Rapid fire question time. Oh boy. You're in the hot seat. Okay. Boone and Crockett Buck with your bow in the Midwest, or four point buck after a 15 mile track in Maine. Four point buck in Maine, I assume. Yeah. Yes. Even at Boone and Crockett though, in Kansas, I've shot'em. Just not the same. Just not as rewarding. I've killed 2 2 2 boomers. Okay. most people dunno what that is, but that's a huge white tail. That's a different animal. Like record setting. I've killed one tracking. I've killed one in Illinois with a bow. And it not, no comparison. No, not even different world. Cool. Yep. All right. Hunting solo or with a partner? Definitely solo. Definitely solo. Wow. Definitely solo. Oh, tracking is a solo. Yeah. Adventure. you, it's one of those things that you put your nose to the wind and you go with it, right? Yeah. you go where you want to go, not where somebody else dictates you to go. yep. Or slows you down speed wise. Yep. Yep. Definitely. Solo venison burgers or venison tacos. Ooh, that's a tough one. Teddy. I'm gonna say tacos. Okay? Depends who's cooking? If your wife's cooking, I'll probably taste well, slow cooker. That'd be slow cooker. Little shredded medicine. Yeah. Yeah. It's all good. Yeah. All right. I am stand hunting or still hunting. Definitely still hunting. Gotta know what's over. The next ridge, dawn or dusk hunts. Ooh. Honestly, I like both. I love heading off on a track when it's pitch black with a flashlight, right? There's nothing like being on a buck track with just a flashlight walking in the dark. Yep. And then having a good, completely a lot of hunts. You're probably doing both. Yep. All right. Luck or skill? I'm gonna say skill, but you need a little luck Probably. You need a little luck, but you definitely need the skill to put you in that scenario to get the luck. Alright. You'll like this one. Yeah. More enjoyable traffic jam on Main Street during foliage while trying to get to a painting job or traffic going to the ski mountain during plowing season. Oh man. I've given up plenty of clients because of the, traffic in the wintertime, trying to make it to the mountain. Yeah, I'll take fall foliage all day long. Okay. Alright. Okay. Favorite state to hunt? Vermont, New Hampshire or Maine or other? Or other, yeah. Yeah. Definitely Maine. Okay. Over Northeast. Over all of them. Yeah. Just because endless ground and bigger bucks. Yep. What about favorite state in the us? Illinois is pretty nice. It is. It's different because you're bow hunting, but you're watching deer do deer. you might be watching this cornfield and there could be 30 deer out there and watching'em all interact with each other or chase them around. Probably learn a lot too. You can learn a lot. Yep. Yep. It's pretty neat to watch deer do deer. One piece of hunting gear you'll never leave behind. Compass. Yeah. You want to know which way you're going, when you want to come down off that mountain. No doubt. Music, podcast or silence driving to the hunt. definitely music. Good. Upbeat stuff get fired up. Yeah. You're like, I'm gonna need a lot of energy here. Yeah. Teddy remembers the old, music in the locker room. Critical to the hockey days. Get jacked up. Yeah. Yeah. Get fired up. Coffee or no coffee before morning hunt? Coffee. Coffee, and some creamer, for sure. All right. Let's talk about Stowe a little bit before we wrap up. You've been in STO a long time. It's changed quite a bit. What do you hope for STO the next five, 10 years? Would you like to see it? The school system stays where It's at maybe a little bit more involvement from outdoors perspective, like we were talking earlier on. Totally. I hate to see that whole school system get changed and lumped in with others every three years. It feels like it's like a Yeah. Same thing. Rehashed, like we were saying, this is a very unique town. It's a pretty cool town. Yep. It's got some. Pretty good people in it and to keep that same vibe going. Yeah. You know how it was when we grew up in this town. Yeah. It's changed, but it hasn't changed that much. The bones are still here. Yep. We always say that. It's still very, yep. it's still very niche in that sense. And a lot of people know one another, right? And it's getting less, I guess you could say. Yeah. But you still have your groups of people, and that's key when you grow up as a kid, knowing everybody in the town, yeah. You can't get away with anything, but it's good. But you're gonna try. Yeah. You're gonna try and everyone's gonna look out for you too. Yeah. community. You know how it is when you drive down Main Street and you waved, there's 12 vehicles and you waved to six of them. Yeah. It's a cool feeling. It is. Yeah, no doubt about it. Alright, we, wrap up with this one question we ask all of our guests. If ow did not exist, where would you live? I own a house in Island Pond and I probably would be at it and I would be at HIT if it wasn't for the OW school system. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I don't mind commuting here to work, but that is my playground. Yep. Island Pond. Island Pond. I haven't heard that yet. Yep. It's a good spot. Cool. Thanks a lot, Joey. Yeah. Thanks Joey. All right. Hope you enjoyed that episode of the Octagon Podcast. Remember to like us on Instagram and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. See you next time.