Season 2: #12 Hardeaux Roundtable: Love em or Hate em?

This week we rounded out the 2025 season at the Octagon Podcast with the long awaited Hardeaux Roundtable. The Hardeaux's have what could be described as a controversial reputation around town and on the mountain for their hard charging attitude on the uphill scene, desire to push the limits and most importantly creating a tight knit ski community. If you see headlamps scattered on Nosedive in the early morning darkness or the iconic sticker on the lower left of an oversized truck or SUV there is a high probability it is a Hardeaux. We will explore the history, passion and bond that brings the Hardeaux's back to the skin track together time and time again regardless of weather and conditions. 

This episode we also brought into the studio a special co-host Porter Thorndike. Not only is he the brother of Octagon co-founder Ted Thorndike but is also known as the Commissioner of the Hardeaux's!

Transcript

0:00

This episode of the Octagon Podcast is brought to you in part by Archery Close and Union Bank. Hey, it's Taste and Chris from Archery Close your go-to Men's and Women's Boutique located here in Stowe. If you haven't stopped in yet, we'd love to see all of you Octagon listeners. We have a curated selection of emerging designers and brands you already know and love. From outerwear to footwear to party wear, we have it all to get you dressed in style this winter season. Stop in for yourself or to get started on your holiday shopping. Archery Close is open seven days a week at 1650 Mountain Road or always online@archeryclose.com. Since 1891, union Bank has made banking a little bit easier and more convenient for you by investing in the success of its local community. Your community headquartered in Mooresville Union Bank has 18 branches and three loan centers throughout Northern Vermont and New Hampshire. Union Bank is a proud supporter of the Octagon Podcast, as well as many fantastic community oriented endeavors such as the STO Trails Partnership, the Vermont Ski and Snowboard Museum, and the STO Land Trust to name a few of the over 200 nonprofits they work with. To learn more, go to ub local.com. Welcome listeners to the Octagon Podcast, where we explore the stories, people, and places that make Stover Vermont so legendary. I'm your host, Ted Thorndyke. I'm usually joined by my co-host Mike Carey, but today we have a very special guest, co-host today, Porter Thorndyke. Porter just so happens to be my brother, but is also known as the Commissioner of the Hardos. The Hardos have what could be described as a controversial reputation around town and on the mountain for their hard charging attitude on the uphill scene, desire to push the limits, and most importantly, creating a tight knit ski community. If you see headlamps scattered on nose D in the early morning darkness, or the iconic sticker on the lower left of an oversized truck or SUV, there's a high probability. It is a hard o. We will explore the history, passion, and bond that brings the hard Os back to the skin track together time and time again, regardless of weather and conditions. Welcome, hardos. Thanks. Excited to be here. How you doing boys? Great to be here. Good. Middle of a nice storm cycle here, given that it's like the best ski day of the season was this morning and the second best day was yesterday. I think we're good. Not bad, right? Not bad. just so our listeners can get a feel for what's going on here, I'm just gonna go around the room and everybody can, introduce themselves and, we'll start over here with Carl. Hey, my name's Carl Lipsky, also known as the Viking. Yep. Doing nicknames as well. Yeah. Hey everyone, my name is Andrew Rush, also known as The Godfather. Nice. I'm Adam Hergan. Rother. I have two nicknames. Okay. Alright. Two. first one was Rainwater. Okay. Which is, for, understanding the weather Yes. At high levels. That's right. And the second one is. Geraldo and actually there's actually a third one. It's also Geraldo. Okay. So like we get Geraldo in GI Geraldo. Yep. Depending on what it is. And that is basically for finding random information of facts. Yeah. And then supplying them to the rest of the crew so they can do whatever they would like with them. All right. Can have to add on that Adam as well. Geraldo's known as someone that would actively put himself into an active war zone or an intense situation and be reporting live on what's happening. So I think that's another factor. Yes. And your nickname? Porter Thorndyke, Ted's brother, also known as the commissioner. This was coined by Ted. Ted is one of the most talented nickname, coining people in the world. He's good. Who's responsible for many of these nicknames? Yes. Many nicknames that his classmates maybe didn't enjoy growing up. and coin me, the commissioner probably because I'm like an organizer. let's be clear. When you organize, we'll finish a skin and then. 13 seconds before I get in my truck. I have another text that says what time we're going tomorrow morning. That's right. Yeah. That's so you're incredibly organized to keep the group together. You need one of everybody. It's, it makes the whole group though. It's an important, also important role of the commissioner as I can be asked to adjudicate, disputes if there's a dispute over whether someone was late Yeah. Or committed the night before. A policy infraction will act as judge jury. Which is trail court could get. Yeah. We'll get into that. We'll get into that. No, you're excited boys. I'm Ted Thorndyke. I have two nicknames. My first nickname is Cavendish, due to my gravel biking speed racing acumen. Yeah. Who coined that? Is that? That's me. Okay. Yeah, that's a good one for Mark Cavendish and a recent nickname I gotta give, Geraldo credit here is Ted Zilla. been liking that and there's been offshoots of that as well. It's been Cav Zilla. I wanna thank you for that though. The Ted Zilla has been, that's been great. cool. And commissioner, I believe you're gonna give a shout out to some of the other hardos that weren't able to make it tonight. Yeah. just to be clear, we don't take ourselves too seriously here. We're very immature and childish. Clearly the nicknames, they're fun. Okay. They're just fun. Nicknames are a good, fun. There's a bunch of our buddies, that couldn't make it tonight. We wanna recognize them. We got Hightower, our buddy that's just very tall. Six, seven, we got six, seven. We got another one who's goat Now, some would say he's an incredible skier and it means he's the greatest skier on the mountain. Some would say that, I'm not gonna say that it's actually because he really likes being in the back country and squeezing in between all of these tight shrubs. Kind of like a mountain goat with no helmet. Yep. If you goat, co commissioner, would you say in the early days with goat, you and some others were following him around as if he was like Taylor Swift, like a celebrity, if we're gonna go on a diversion here, I, our daughters are the same age. I met him at ski school one time. And with some other dads and daughters, we went up and we had a great day skiing with our daughters who were probably like four, four or five years old at the time. And then I remember my wife saying, oh Christian, oh Pete, everyone says he's the best skier on the mountain. And I'd only seen him ski one day. I hadn't seen him charging down Brook, or in these narrow ninja style woods lines or lookout, which is his native habitat. I was like, please is not the best skier on the mountain anyway. Goat, you're incredible skier. I'm not gonna give you the crown. We love you goat. We love you goat. We miss you. And then we got a warchild. he's most of the hardos, a very tall war child. Very short. may or may not have a Napoleon complex, but that's a difference. And I think that leads to him being very aggressive towards outsiders. Yes. Okay. Tourists. I know that he had, likes to yell at tourists. That might be something he's got two sides on though, right? Because recently he's got a new nickname. War muffin. War Muffin. that's right. War Muffin. That's right. that's his softer, that's the softer side. Sensitive side. They collaborate well together. And I'll tell you, if it's a powder day and we're up there early and there is a conga line Yeah. of uphill traffic. He's been known to go ahead and spray. That's right. That conga line. we got Ken tore. He loves to just forecast the weather specialist, other part. buddy Whitey, he's, he's Irish. He's. Very aggressive. He's has been accused of looking to, headbutt, people that he disagrees with. Missy Whitey, love you. We got Rocket. nickname speaks for itself. Yeah, this dude can absolutely fly. We got Rocky. this guy was a hell of a college athlete. we used to say all around stud, if you are hunting his land and you weren't approved, we'd say, you better watch out. He might be like Rocky doing a woods workout and you would have to deal with him. And then we got Boone just quintessential explorer. Guy loves to get after it and get out there and explore. So miss you guys, love the nicknames, love you guys. Just makes it fun. Definitely be like daily laughs. No, the nicknames are super cool. And, commissioner, is there a voting process for the nicknames or how, or anybody else can chime in? How I, how does that work? What I would say is if there's a new member, We try to workshop. You know what would be a good nickname? Generally that will happen in private. Yes. Before proposing it, try to gain some consensus that we think it's hilarious and appropriate, and then we will present it. And sometimes it has been denied Boone's original nickname. It did not take it, didn't like it. Even I'm still, I'm a little butt hurt about that E rock. you can see why I didn't like it, Ted, your original nickname, which I gave you on the garbage man, you veto the garbage man. And this is due to the face that you would make, you were jaw face, really jaw faced. So anyway, so there is a process, but obviously you want the person to feel good about looking for it to be appropriate. Cool. So that's the membership. it's much bigger than that Ted, as not just people with nicknames or members. Different tiers of membership for sure. Yeah. But, so cool. Thanks for that. Shout out to all the other hardos, miss you guys. I'm sure we'll see on the mountain tomorrow. let's explore the origin and the early days of the Hardos. godfather, maybe, chime in and just, talk about, your first experience. Like how did this thing start? The hardos. I think the nickname started by, self-deprecating humor. Yeah. we recognized that our behavior was a little absurd, maybe a little weird, a little quirky maybe. Yeah. And that we were actually hardos. Yeah. and not the way we spell it now, but, like A-H-A-R-D-O. Yes. Like a Har Argo. Exactly like that, mead head from Massachusetts in the gym. But we were taking that behavior of obsessively skiing up Mount Mansfield. Yeah. and then yeah, during COVID spring we're wandering through the lot and we noticed the spelling on one of the plow trucks was Ox, H-A-R-D-O-X. And it just, I remember that discovery. We realized that we were just one step better Yeah. Than, your quintessential hardo. We are hardos, yeah. Yeah. A little fancier movie bougie. We're bougie hardos. That was and instead the spelling adapted and we really just embraced the fact that we're ridiculous. really well said Commissioner. Who. Who's in the group, man? Like in those, like the origin stories, the origin story. Andrew said, COVID happened, that winter, a lot of us didn't start skinning until like 2018, 2019, that amazing winter. Others, were skinning a lot longer. but we de definitely had the formation of a group, which is mostly dads, but then also friends, and over the course of that season, which would've been 2019. 20. People were skinning and some people fall off and there was a small group of about five of us that just continued through to the very end, kept going and then the mountain shut down. And so COVID it this natural thing formed where everyone's stressed out, we got our kids at home doing remote learning. Andrew had a job as like the director of emergency responses that's for Vermont, which was a fake job. And then all of a sudden here comes A pandemic. Yeah. so everything went crazy. I think we really, enjoyed having that daily meetup in the morning to, it is like a therapy session. Yeah. And the snow happened to be spectacular. It was really good. It was incredibly cold and snowy, April and May. And so it was really just that group that's okay, we're going here every day. Let's keep it going. This is fun. And then all of these quirky little traditions and protocols. started from there. So I think that's the origin, and then it just grew as people Saw the value. we're talking about rules and protocols, and I think we'll just jump into that. I think maybe what makes sense is let's just break down the anatomy of a single skin with the hardos. Then we can, there's a lot, cover all the rules and stuff. I don't know, man. Let's talk timing. Like, how does that, how's that, how does it happen? How does it start? Yeah. How does it all start? basically someone throws out a start time. Yeah. You text out. I think I should go this time. We normally, we've got a couple guys in the group here that on a powder day, they love to get after. They love to do a double up or go Viking, a triple up today, Geraldo with a double up. So I, yeah. Geraldo, when did you start today? Five in the morning. 5:00 AM start. you gotta, it's a new norm, dude. It's if, and that might even arguably be late. I know. Might, there's already eight cars in the parking lot. Yeah. Yeah. And you do a double. And then you get back and then, you go up later again, Carl to, triple. But I think poor, you're right. Like the anatomy of the timing of it is somebody throws it out there. Okay. And then there's a little bit of a, people are either in to that or there is a counter. Yeah, that's right. And sometimes there can be a counter. And it's depending on which deciding factor of the group is gonna decide that Is usually the time they picks. See there, sometimes it can be 6 30, 6 14. But then there's all the iterations. And then I think last year, Ted, you sent out six 15 and Ls, like six 14 by mistake. I actually said it, I went and I put six 14 or six 13 by mistake. And then everyone started picking up on that and we started doing, if Porter suggested six 15 and then somebody would say six 14. And so it just keeps going right there. And then somebody say, might say 5 59 or you got life events going on. So somebody might be like, I'm actually gonna go after post drop. So in the group, it's nice to see it. It's fluid too. There's multiple time slots, there's different tiers. Like a lot of times you guys, you'll go super early. Yeah. traditional start time would be six 14 and what's what, six 14? What are the rules? Like when do you have to be. Skin's on snow. first of all, I just want to throw out there that Viking ral, they're what I would refer to as big game hunters. Okay. So that's on the big powder days. They've got a plan. Alright. It could be a double, it could be a chin times. We won't hear from them on the thread actually. They're doing their thing. They're big game hunters. It's it'ss accepted and appreciated. We've also, invited majority of everybody. Many times that's who come with us. It's over the years and then everybody just either doesn't respond to us. Yeah. Or just says I'm into the next one. So we just moved away from inviting because we know that guys just don't follow. Yeah. It is early, Ted. There's a lot there with the throwing out of the start time. Okay. That is hilarious. And very childish, but hilarious. Yeah. Someone wants to go at six 15. Okay. So if you want to go at six 15, you would throw out six 14. Yeah. Okay. So it would be one minute before why. Because Adam did it by mistake or because I think it's also like an accountability measure. don't be late. Don't be late. Don't be late. All right. And so when people arrive in the lot in the morning, which by the way, which law is it?'cause there's two. it's the lot. It's the harder lot. Exactly. It is the lot that is closest to the con lot below midway. It is hard lot. Just That's right. Just to confirm. That's right. And so if you want to go at six 15, you would throw out six 14. And Ted, what time would people actually get out of their cars or trucks if they wanted to go? Six. So six 14 gets proposed. You're out of your truck at six 12. Yeah, six 12, that's right. Six. Walking over six, 12. Yeah. would you say this is almost been become an unspoken hive mind type of situation with the fine precision of the minutes, there's a cadence. There's a cadence to it. Six 12 and Carl, I have a question for you. Yeah. When you pull into the hardo lot. what do you do next? is there like a parking thing or what do you have to do? You gotta back in. Okay. You gotta back in. Yeah. Cool. Backing in is back in. So even if you nose in somewhere, are you still like backing up like a millimeter? Yeah. I like, yeah because it typically, I'm there first. That's the rule. I like getting there early. Yeah. Chilling out and yeah, chilling out. Scoping up the forecast and stuff like that. Yeah. And I'll gotta back in. I'll pull in into a forward parking spot where I could typically drive out, but, back in a couple feet back in because that's just one of the rules. Dial it in. Godfather, do you remember the origin of the back end protocol? How it began? it was COVID Spring and we had to park outside of the resort on 1 0 8 there. Yeah. And. Everyone else would pull in a nose in and we wanted to be organized and line up. And that's, that to me is my memory of where it started. What was hilarious was Godfather and Cat Dish were backing in and I was garbage, man. There were others of us that were, why are you guys backing in? They had their own reasons for wanting to back in and it just caught on. Yeah, it's great, man. It's time to leave. You got things to do. Just it is Pull on out of there. we talk about the timing, talk about the backing in, add, sorry, Geraldo. What if someone's late? Yeah. what? what if? Yeah, there's consequences. Okay. What is that? There's a few different consequences. One, number one is the person typically gets left behind. Yeah. it is no matter. No matter what the weather, what, even if we see it could be equipment. they could be pulling into the parking lot and we can see them and we'll give'em a wave. Yeah. But we'll literally, we'll just start going and the whole group will start going. But everyone knows this, so it doesn't, it's not like your feelings get hurt. That's the best thing about, it's a known. Then what you do is then you gotta really catch the group.'cause then if you catch the group, it Takes the sting away a little bit. Yeah. And then it just, it just brings you back into the group scene. Almost like an ashamed child, Exactly. head down that Yeah, I can. Okay. Actually, I can remember one time specifically where Rocket came in. Do you guys remember this last year? And he was late and like he forgot something. He had to run back and get it and we could see his headlamp trying to catch us. Yeah, I remember that. The whole way up there. And he finally cut us and he was soaky wet. He was dread. He was like, I got you guys. That's all I needed to do. Yeah. And that was his victory of the morning. Right? Totally. It didn't matter what the ski run was. So anyways, there's that. So we typically will, so there's consequences. There's consequences we leave. Yep. There is. And it's it's not six 15 you get there. I think it was said earlier, but we may have just we may have put a pin in that a little bit more. It's like it's your skin's on snow. leaving, moving, leaving at six 15. Yep. So it's not for what that is. And then, of course if you're late, then you get easily a, an infraction kind of thing. There's some penalties that happen on the thread, which then commissioner comes in there and will hear arguments. there are arguments on both sides, right? Because there are legit arguments that some people need. sure. so Adam, if I were to have an infraction Yeah, you have. You have lodged some penalties towards me. I have What? Do you remember what your favorite one is? No. You gotta tell me though.'cause would say I'm not allowed to use crampons. That's right. Crampons. No crampons for the commission. That's a good one. That's right. That's right. What was that? There was a big infraction that you had. One time that I was,'cause usually you, you try not to, the big ones are you commit the night before and you don't show up. Oh, what it was. That's the big one. That's a bail. What you slept in. You forgot your alarm. That's what that was. And you just never showed up. Yeah. which is a bail? Yeah's? A bail. Bail. It's a bail. Complete bail. Okay. There's a late, A bail is worse than a late, yeah. we should also introduce something called an NBB. Yeah. Night before, before bail. This is referred to as a night before bail. There's some members in the group that, got used to, God, you are guilty of this. Guilty. This is where I was doing a little bit of that, that they would not commit the night before and then they would just show up. Yeah. You wouldn't know when they were gonna show up. So the night before bail is the failure to commit to your friends. The night before there was a, there was also a new rule that was put in place in terms of what time you had to change your. Remember that last year we changed commit by nine. You have to commit by 9:00 PM. Yes. Oh, that's right. That's right. that's a big thing because people were changing plans and so that's a, if it's nine o'clock, right? 8 59 to me, text, there can be a, you could be sick, so as long as you back out before nine o'clock, you're absolved. it's a lowered severity. Bail is what you got. It's not a full bail. How many texts do you think come through on a day if it's a power? Traditional. Traditional, like skiing day.'cause in the summertime slows down. But like traditional skiing day, I didn't really count how many? 200. 200. A minimum. I'm hundred. 200. 200. Yeah. I know like some of the people work a lot harder than I do and it's just they have to silence their phone.'cause 200 texts is a lot. It's a lot to keep up with, especially when it starts getting rolling. Yeah. I would also add too, as far as the hard o parking lot scene, six 15 gotta be moving, otherwise you get left. A lot of times we'll get there 10 minutes before. so a lot of times there'll be like 10 trucks just backed in with their lights on, because somebody will get their 10 minutes before, put the skis on the snow, and then everyone will go, we'll go back in truck, all lights on, everybody. We'll go back in the truck just listening to music and somebody will pull in and be like, what? What is wrong with these guys? And somebody's what is wrong with us? And Whitey just goes, anxiety. It's anxiety. That's right. It's So I wanted to, add that little tidbit in. I like it about the whole scene. The heart a lot. Cool. So we painted the picture. Yep. Yep. But to wrap it up, it's about accountability. It's about a commitment. It's about being true to your friends. if you not bailing. Yeah. life lessons. Yeah. Life lessons. Teddy. The origin and the creed is be active. Show up for your friends, be accountable. Be on time. Dependable and reliable. Be on time someone friends can count on and be able to have fun exercising with each other. One of the best things about is being able to talk to your friends well and knowing everybody's gonna be there. Yep. Somebody says they're coming, they're gonna be there on time. you would definitely be more apt to skip if you didn't have a hundred percent. everybody in the group would, or you'd go later or like you would do something different and or just not go. Most people would still go, but not nearly as much as they do, knowing that there's an, oh, the amount of days I've gone because I committed, or other people are going, yeah, it's a lot. it's a tactic. It's like a baila holic synonymous. It's like a tactic for people that have trouble bailing, to commit the night before and then the consequences if you do bail so many mornings. Probably a hundred where I would not have gone if I hadn't committed the them before. Never regretted it. Have you ever skinned by yourself? Kh? Probably two or three a year, Adam. But I will tell, I have not written, I don't know if, I don't know if last year you did. I'll bring up the Strava. You should. I don't bring up that. I'm not sure there was, this is, this could be construed as slander, sir. There could be a, I'm just being, there's one or two, but I really do appreciate going with people. Yeah, no, it's my favorite part about it, actually. More than the exercise and more than the powder. it's the sunrise. I'd like to add on that too. I'm sober myself and I don't go to bars or anything, so it's like my mountain bar. Yeah. seeing everybody in the morning. Yeah. it's a really good social outlet for me. there is something special. anybody that skins in the morning feels this way, but when you. Show up there and you've got friends there and it's dark and you're starting with headlamps and you're climbing the mountain. Yeah. And then the sunrise comes up, or it's nuking snow. And at the top you get the transition over there and you're having a bunch of laughs with people. Yeah. Maybe hugging it out, gratitude circle, whatever it's, yeah. Yeah. And then people disperse into different trails from there. But and then you meet back up in the parking lot and you're like, that was amazing. Seven 30. I know, right? So it just feels that's a great thing. Like you accomplished everything you need to, it's very invigorating. Yeah. Awesome. should we talk about some equipment? I think we should Evolution of the hardest, I think where we're at is very unique in terms of the equipment that you had. I think it's, people that are backcountry purists or people that are interested in back country. we probably have gotten to the point where we have very different setups than most other people like Adam or Carl or Andrew. when you started skinning, what was the setup all about? I remember Carl Skis. Yeah. Yeah. It was a lightweight, simple setup. Dina Fit binding, a lot of Scarpa boots. Yeah. Scarpa. big Scarpa. Yep. Yeah. How many pairs of skis do you have, Carl? Probably 10. just skinning. Just skinning. Just skinning. Yeah. I, it's ten six. Yeah. Yeah, that's more. I'm sure you have more than that, but we'll go with that. Yeah. So in the beginning, everyone had the really light setups, it was all about the uphill, which was great. Lot of Scarpa boots. Yeah. yep. I think a lot of us really then find ourselves in Halbrook and be like, this, not performing this downhill performance, not great. Yeah. And then, so like Andrew or Adams, what slowly started happening to everyone in the group? I started much heavier. I had the old frame bindings with Giant one 12. Did you have Fritz's? Yeah. Yeah. Fr that was my first bindings popping outta those a lot vocal katana, think they were one 14 under foots. Like they were so big and then the boots were terrible. I didn't have, I had skinning boots, but they were so big. And so I started on the other end of, and that predates super heavy skis and I had some dukes. Those were heavy bikes. Yeah, they were, it was awful. Like it really didn't motivate me to go very much. Yeah. I talk to actually a lot of people that say the same thing. until they get, just a better setup maybe, Yeah. It's good on the down and a little lighter. So I'm lucky I've never gone to the really light. I went right to the mid zone of, the, zero G boots, which are, pretty high performance lighter. Yep. And the kings I used to kingpins. I don't even go kingpins. Okay. I like my G threes. Oh, that's right. Or D threes. I I remember when you got those. I do have one set of, what's it called? Shifts for, when I want to travel and bring one ski and be able to skin utility. It's like a utility binding. But I'm like middle of the road. Wait now. Yeah. Yeah. what about you, Geraldo? We have a slew of different setups here. how did it all start though? what did you have? What was your first, I had original Scarpa boot. Okay. I think I put it on an atomic back land. Yep. And the rotation, DFI rotation binding on it, not a terrible set. No, it's not. it was nice. It was, I think it was a 99 underfoot for that. That was originally, it wasn't the wide back land. Yep. and that was, that's essentially how it started. and honestly like just the technology itself has changed dramatically as an industry. And as that started happening, it's what else can you buy? And that's where it went from there to like mops favorite customer, Knops, Geraldo's here. Yay. between Carl and I there, I'm pretty sure we make their spend a lot of money. Make it happen. Yeah. For what it is. Buy local, everybody. That's right. That's mops. It's a great store. we've got, I know, I dunno if anybody else in the group does, but Carl and I have full skinny s schmo setups. Yep. For super light super. nothing grams uphill racing, whatever that is for some PR bids. But you know what, I think it was for last year, obviously the second half was awesome for snow, but the year before that it was pretty. It was an okay year. Snow wise. And so every day we were going up and coming down these grooms and like having, any type of, yeah. Wider ski was not all that much fun when you had these grooms. So then everyone started getting a kendo. Yeah. And trying to put kendo is like the heaviest setup you could have. And you're hauling up some weight, you 11 people wide going up with a kendo. People would, what are you carrying up there? and then you start putting shifts on there, which is a heavier binding that gives you more downhill performance. So I think it really switched into group three years ago when people started caring a lot more about downhill performance and skiing hard, particularly around the grooms and making sure they had the right equipment for that. But also know that, I think it's interesting about how our entire changeover too, we should get to that at some point. The transition. The transition at the top, because that is definitely unique and different than a lot too. Yeah. we'll go there, but we'll just talk about skins and then we can get in the transition piece. what are the hardest using for skins? I've got a funny story on this. I wanna say it was like four or five years ago. There were certain people in the group that were just way more surefooted than others. Ted, you were one. Andrew was one. Christian was another, and they would that compliment, puff their chest out and be like, it's just superior technique, Sorry, can't help you. You don't have the right technique. And then it turned out at the end of the, we all had like pokas, which Carl likes referred to as banana peels. and then Andrew at the end of the season just revealed he had these G three Alpinist also, which was the super grips. Yeah. Were you the first one? It was like a shag. He is a shag rug. literally Oh. Was a really good comparison. It weighs more than a skeet, but it does not walk up ice. Gotti will wrap them around himself at the top. That's right. If he called. Yeah, that's right. Okay. So super grips, is that like the skin of the hard say the skin that for a hard, icy groom, I like the, yeah. For, I like the pink poca for powder. Okay. For Powder Glide powder is like the best glide and the green poca for anything that's not gonna be slippery, but you'll have two weeks straight where you need that G three. I thought you like a poca guy now since we introduced crampons to the equation. Yes. That's good. You took the words outta my mouth. the pokas are fine. Yes. Yeah, that's exactly, it's te poca is grippy enough. Yep. You need a crampon if it's icy. And then the pink poca slides on the powder and then it folds up in the folds up. Nothing, almost nothing. Yeah. Especially for doubles. when did crampons come onto the scene? More recent development. that was a scary day. We were, boy, three, four years ago, all skinny up nose eye with whitey glazed donut sheet of ice. Yeah. And pitch blackout and porter. our commissioner Whitey. Yeah. You and me up towards the eliminator. Yeah. And Whitey took that. So you're saying that's not the nose dive head wall? Correct. Okay. Eliminator. It's the eliminator. just wanna confirm that. Okay, cool. Yeah. Whitey went down and he came, turtle shell spinning by Teddy and I He was probably going about 70. it was frightening. Yeah. That was a scary morning. Just so we got crampons just for years. In the early days we're just battling. Yeah. Up with no crampons on the i Seet days. Just dudes are sliding and crashing and falling. And I wanna say two years ago. Yeah. We're all just why don't we have crampons? I call em in my baby bottle. That's right. They are baby bottle. They're, they gave you two. honestly, do you see the guy today that had crampons called? He did. Was it the commissioner? No, but it wouldn't surprise is one of the things, there's two feet of powder. A guy had crampons on him, so amazing. Yeah. No, but Carl why're on. I like having him. Yeah. While you're on that, you should, discuss a little bit of what the Kendall Killer is too. The Kendall. oh, what? Yeah. Rby. Actually, I gotta give credit to, the Godfather. it's a blizzard. It was originally, the Kendo killer. what was that? I don't remember what it's, yeah, it's not the Brahma, is it? Yeah. Yeah, it was the bra. It was originally the Brahma, it was the bra now it was the anomaly. Yeah. same waist. 88. Yeah. Sheet of metal in it. Nice. It's a nice race carving scheme. Yeah, I've seen Gotti with that. Yeah. It's got a little bit more pop to it though. Yeah, Gotti was definitely peacocking when you got those. Yeah. when the bizarre rep wants to, sponsor me that I can't pass'em up on that. you can't, you are a ski essentials model. you are a ski essentials model. I just wanna circle back to the transition before we forget. we outlined we're getting in the lot, the timing, the banter, start time, you're getting up crampons, all that stuff. The skins like, what's the transition scene like up at, up at the quad? Kinda what's. What's going on up there? Mission, you take the longest. Oh, okay. You can explain a little bit. I thought that might be coming. Yeah. Adam. Adam is a man of speed and efficiency and impatience. So Adam is the fastest and once he finishes, Adam is the fastest I feel. The He just sta the eye of so on. Staring. So burning. Burning at me because I'm a slower transition. There's slow and then there's your transition. Let's just clear I'm amongst the slowest trying to go fast. There's also times where I also don't, I don't love Russia. You sure off longer. I get anxiety up at the top. I gotta make sure I'm not the last Yeah. That's like my goal. A little bit of a rush maybe. we're not doing the skimo change. We're not lifting the ski up and pulling it off and sticking it in our jacket and skiing down. We're taking some time to smell the roses as much as we can, which involves the skis come off. But the three big pillars here are skins up the skis, transition the bindings, then transition the boots, and then change that wet layer. Alright? You're gonna be miserable. Because skiing down, if you don't change the wet layer, so the wet layer gets changed. Reminds me of a funny story. There's a lot of, characters up on Mansfield. it's got Jeff Elba, great guy. Gets after it up there all the time. One time last year I just asked him, I said, Jeff, what do you think about our transition here?'cause Jeff is more of a, let's just take the skins off and ski back down. He's gonna transition. And he looked at me and he said. I don't understand why you have to throw all of your equipment all over the place on the ground. Something along those lines. It is like a bomb one off. It's funny. A it's bomb. It's like a bomb one off. Yeah. And like good vibes up there. Usually great vibes. other people, it's, you're feeling high from just, climbing all that hard work about to get down. Yeah. and shout out to, to Big Al. We did a really awesome gratitude circle Yeah. And memory of him not too long ago. we'll bust some of those out. Yeah. Gratitude circle, just appreciation for the brotherhood and, really just the greater community. Yeah. Up at the mountain. Yeah. On a really awesome people up there. You're lucky enough if to bump into Mishy lame when there's a great sunrise. You're gonna be feeling some positive vibes there as well. Definitely. Shout out to Mishy. Yeah. Shout out to Mishy. majestic Mount Mansfield embodies the spirit of Stowe heritage. And we're proud to present the Octagon Podcast, a true reflection of our amazing community. Stowe Living is honored to sponsor this podcast. We're helping you live your best life daily with stunning furniture, unique design, kitchenwares, thoughtful gifts sourced from around the world. Thank you Stowe for your continued support of Stowe Living and the Octagon Podcast. When it comes to luxury real estate in Stowe Trust, Meg Kaufman of Land Vests, Christie's International Real Estate. Meg Kaufman knows the market inside and out. She's been a part of the Stowe community for over 20 years. Whether you're buying or selling, Meg Kaufman offers a concierge level of service. Taylor, just for you. Backed by the power of land vests and Christie's International. She brings proven success and local insight to every transaction, luxury real estate, local expertise. Meg Kaufman and Land Vests are the team you want on your side. All right, sweet. So I feel like we painted the picture a little bit. The scene. let's bring it to current day Hardo. Kish, like how did it grow? we talked about the origin story, the five people and how did it grow from there? I think there's a lot of times in my life where you see someone else doing something that, you appreciate or you think that looks like fun, or you think to yourself, I'd like to do that too. And it could be anything. It could be someone that's like good at their job or someone that likes playing tennis or someone that likes coaching you sports. And so I think just we started with a nucleus of people that liked to really regularly get together and skin up nose stuff. And I think as people join and you realize how much fun it is, kind of meeting your friends, exercising, being on a beautiful mountain, a cold, dark mountain where incredible things happen almost every day between snow and sunrises are just hilarious conversations. I think you have a good time. You're with your friends, get to talk to your friends. You get the exercise, you're in a beautiful place, and then skiing is fun. you get to ski down a beautiful groom trail or you get a beautiful sunrise. I think as people start showing up, they're like, yeah. This is what I like doing. This is fun. It's a great group of people. I appreciate this. It's the a great way to start the day. I think it just grows organically based on. People thinking I'd like to do that. And then experiencing it and saying, I love this. I wanna keep doing it. the big thing I like to think about is building friendships through activity and how often do you take the average kind of male that's 40, 35 to 45 years old? how often are they seeing their friends? What, maybe once a week. Once a week? Probably maybe at a different thing. and not only are we communicating every day with everybody, like I pretty much know what your kids' schedules are in your lives. I know when Teddy's gonna the doctor. Like I just know, I mean it's like all these things about everybody.'cause when you are with somebody every day, you exhaust the big items that you go through mentally, but then it also strips away the kind of superficial conversation. And then you can really get down to the The ones where you can have meaningful conversations, real conversations with what's going on in your mind or your head, or real challenges that are out there that you can throw out in the ski track. And like sometimes. we'll joke around and be like, I got a good one for the skin track tomorrow.'cause I need help to, solve this one or whatever it is. And I don't think that could be underscored. And I think that's part of the entire friendship that makes it such a special group is that thread that gets woven on the skin track to, really communicative process of allowing people to express themselves. And it's cool you're all out there in, extreme environment. Yeah, that's exactly you're accomplishing something every day. Yeah. when you are skinning up and it's minus 20 and you all make it together. Yeah. It's especially a bonding Yeah. A bonding thing. For sure. So as far as growing the membership, do people need to prove themselves? Or like how do people become a hardo? is it just showing up consistently? Yeah. The passion. I think that's what it is. I think what does the group appreciate? the group appreciates being together. And so the group appreciates people that show. and I think as you start seeing people show up, even if you're not good friends with them, I think respect, That is given to people that we see up there that impress us consistently. They could be people we don't know. Yep. I remember in the early days, Dennis Kramer just absolutely getting after it. We didn't know who he was. We were like, this guy is amazing. And, other people like that. we've had a friend who went through breast cancer and was showing up to skin every morning. We had, a friend who their son passed away at a young age and she's showing up there like people struggling. Yeah. Going through stuff or just overcoming over. Think it's, I think by and large we're just, all of us super impressed with people that show up, and get after it. And I think that's about it, Yeah. Be active, be dependable. Yeah. Yeah. No, and I think Adam spoke to it well. Sorry, Geraldo, godfather and Viking. what does it mean to you being a hard OI mean, to me it's a consistency piece. It's the reliability piece, right? Accountability. I was actually, thinking about what's the best and worst thing about being a hard on it's, and it, to me, the best thing is when I commit the night before, I don't have to think again. When I wake up the next morning, whether I'm going or not, because I cannot bail. That is just I can't do it. That's the creed. It's the Creed double bail. So to me, that's the best part. I don't have to think when I commit. Yeah. It's just, I'm gonna go ahead. But that's also the worst part, is you commit you. That's right. Being exhausted every morning. Maybe not a ton of flexibility there. to me, but it is about friendship and about pushing ourselves. Yeah. And yeah. Totally. and also I think I've also been a skier who loves bad conditions. And that's something we embrace. you guys all know I love to ski in the rain. Yeah. It's raining. Rain Man is one of his other nicknames. You love skiing in the rain. The conditions are incredible. There's no one there ever in the rain. It's great. It's soft. And I feel like that's also expanded into, we love skiing when it's really cold. Yeah.'cause there's less people there and it's more of an experience. what do you call that when it's really cold? It's a tingler. Tingler. Okay. Tingler. Tingler. What are the parameters of a Tingler can quantify this. I need to be, Fact checked here. Oh, okay. But I believe a light tingler starts when, it is 20 below windchill. Is that right? a diet tingler, if you would. Yeah, I like that. I like diet tingling. To me, I think it could also just be one where it's, boy, it just feels so cold. Yeah. typically the wind, typically wind related. So an official ttr, we've agreed, minus 25, agreed upon minus 25 windshield. But it does need to be tangle confirmed in person. We're not just gonna go by Noah if it, yeah. If it's negative 25 on Noah, it needs to be miserable. I remember last year there was a negative 74 day, do you remember, do you guys remember that? With the wind chill? There, there was like seven or eight of us that went up there. That was rug. That was, I think I looked at Carl in the parking lot and there was frostbite Oh yeah. From all over his face at one point too. From just the down. Yeah. Yeah. it was so cold. how about you Viking? what does it mean to you? What does it mean to be a hard out? Yeah. what does it mean to you? It means, really simple, just, hiking and skiing with some of my closest friends. Yeah. Yeah. And that is, doesn't have to be more than that. It's amazing. Yeah. Nothing short of amazing. Yep, yep. It's awesome. That's what it's all about. And the adventures. Yep. Yeah. Adventures that get planned. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big one. Definitely. And just the everyday banter. This episode of the Octagon Podcast is supported by web sticker STOs, very own sticker experts for over 35 years. When we needed octagon stickers, we went straight to web sticker because they don't just print stickers. They partnered with us, they dialed in our logo, tighten the design, and even suggested adding where to listen and follow on the back for extra marketing power. Our stickers are screen printed on vinyl built for Vermont weather, and most importantly, made by real people who pick up the phone, care about their craft, and have a five star trust pilot rating to prove it. You've seen their work everywhere. The Alchemist, Jay Skis, ski Vermont, and countless other Vermont businesses. Grab an Octagon sticker around town or swing by web sticker and stows Lower Village, or check them out@websticker.com. So I do have to bring something up. It's a little controversial, but I wanna get everybody's opinion on this. when I drive around town, I've been seeing some occasional stickers. It's a hardo ruined my ski town. Like, why? it's just a bunch of dudes going, skiing, hanging with each other. I just, I don't know, man. I've been pondering on that as a card carrying Hardo myself, but I don't know if you guys wanna just chime in. why do you think somebody made those stickers? Yeah. Some haters, I don't know. I, I remember seeing it, and I did laugh. it is funny, you know what I mean? do almost for just the fact that somebody would make us, they were very well done. We considered making our own, we considered putting them all in our cars for a time. shout out to whoever is, yeah. Have our list of suspects. Not that we really care, but shout out to whoever's having a good time and being creative. I could see two cohorts that might not love, what we do. I think the everyday lift serve crowd, a lot of great guys and girls in that crowd, but the reality is just take this morning. we went up at six 15 and before six 14. Six 14, but by the time we were at the top, 50 people must have already come down. No, five. Yeah, for sure. So that, yeah. The fresh tracks get spoiled for the regular lifts or crowd. I could see that being annoying. I also think it's, we are far from backcountry purists, and from a backcountry etiquette perspective. Okay. let's put it this way. Let's say the etiquette would say you've got nine people skinning up while they've gotta be on the right side of the trail, and it should be single file. on a groomed nose dive that's, about a hundred yards wide. If we've got nine people, we're going nine wide, we're going nine wide. Sorry, not sorry. so could some things like that maybe, Bother people that are maybe more aligned with kind of a Okay, so that's a possibility. Etiquette, pure, backcountry experience. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, definitely do get the occasional death stare after a lap of skinning from some folks in the lot that are going to ride the lift. Just I'm sorry man. there's nothing left. there's just nothing left. I don't know. Anything else you guys think on that? I think he summarized it pretty well. Yeah. I also think there's, anytime there's a group, there's gonna be a group that doesn't like the group. Yeah. So we could be aquatic experts, right? And there'd be a group that doesn't like, maybe almost like a North shore scene in Hawaii. Yeah. it's just reality, like the surf culture or something. it's just, that's just part of human nature. Like Hell's Angels in the Mongols here. That's right. Almost, That's right. Yep. Yep. Right on. All right. What about you, Teddy? We checked out. You think anything pondered, whip. Yeah. I think the backcountry etiquette, we feel noses dev is a very wide trail. Yeah. we wanna be together. especially it's not powder day. Yeah. We do though. Do the nine and, yeah. we ski a lot of fresh powder before the mountain opens, it's just, you has anything to do with possible signs that get put up too. Or maybe, I have heard there's some signs out there. Are we cavalier with Strava segments? That be a factor? Yeah. Oh yeah. I did see, I saw a soft O segment. Yeah. somebody had found that one. Yeah. Yeah. Who's got the PR on software? that was Dennis probably. Yeah, that was pretty funny. so The Hardos use Strava. yeah. Would you say a requirement? It doesn't count unless Strava. Goat is our only Strava list. That's right. Team member. be clear. He does Strava. He just doesn't share with anybody. That's right. That's right. He does. He doesn't tell you. He does, but I know he does. Strava is not according to goat. Yeah. Yep. Leave your Heat maps on, Goat heat maps. Strava is for biking according to goat. let's maybe just run through some quirky little terms and maybe some events that you're part of. as a hardo. what's topless day? I love it. You really? Is that your favorite day? It's probably my favorite. Yeah. It's one of my favorite. What is it? it's a day that, as we're approaching the end of the season Okay. Mountains usually shut down at this point. Yep. And we're looking for a day that's gonna be warm. Of course. Okay. And as we enter the top and do our transition, as we take our wet layer off, we just decide not to put one back on. Oh, okay. So maybe some cowboy hats going on. You get a lot of different photo shoots, outfits. Yep. Photo shoots. Okay. You get a lot of different pan attire people. Some people are wearing bibs, some people are, just decided to wear something else. Some people even do like maybe a little. A little light shirt with, the sleeves cut or something. Okay. You have to feel more comfortable doing that. Yeah. Yeah. But the whole origin of that is so that you're coming down the entire mountain. Yeah. And there's eight or nine people tarps off, no tarps off shirt on at all tarps off sunglasses hat. You know that spring vibe. Yeah. And just, but you gotta do it like a line, right? Yeah. You come down and I just remember. every time you do it, people coming up to dive and they're literally just, I don't know if they're in shock or if they are trying to figure out what is even happening right now or then some of'em laugh. I know Mishy always takes photos of us somehow. She's always up there. You notice that every topless day she always somehow seems to be there and then she starts taking video of us and it's awesome. It's good. funny story on the top. Yeah, of course. Absolutely. Teddy. there's a mom in town. She will remain nameless. She okay. She has requested, a calendar multiple times. I think we need to do that. Fellas and one other really funny time, we're all coming down gondola and Big Al our dad who was skinning till the end, I remember 77 years old. That's awesome. He was skinning up and then there were these three babes Yeah. That were skinning just maybe below him or above him. And so nine topless dudes. See Big Al. We all go and s stop by Big Al, which just happens to be next to these three babes. They're looking around, what the hell is going on here? And our friend Whitey goes, welcome sto ladies. I remember that. That was awesome. That's a fun day. That's a fun day. fun. it's also spring season. Yeah. It's a light, it's light later. It's become like a thing, kinda like a production, isn't it? got the camera out. it's gotta be there at that point. Anyways. Yeah. Gotti Donut Day. And we also spell it like the hard of Spelling Donut Day. how did that, what is that? We have to spark? Spell donut is spelled D-E-A-U-X-N-U-T. Yes. Yes. donut Day was, another one of those kind of spur of the moment or impromptu things. It was COVID Spring. It was almost mid-May by the time. And we had made the decision that like tomorrow was gonna be our last day. Yeah, we said that a lot of times. Yeah. But that we were like fully committed. It's grass, the whole bottom, that we're just gonna call it. Yeah. And I don't know, I had this idea of I'm gonna go by the gas station, pick up a donut box, some Maple Donuts and six. And you didn't tell anybody? I didn't tell anyone. Six pack of Gatorades and lugged that up in my backpack to the top. And as we got to the top and we're transitioning, I like broke out, busted donuts. Everyone's what? You carry donuts all the way up and Gatorades. And that was a cool moment. So we hung around and ate donuts and so that's the tradition. Like last day. Last donut day is donut day. Yeah. Last day year. North country cakes. Did you bring some of those? It evolved to North Country. Yeah. Which were some of the best donuts ever. Those are good donuts. We don't carry those to the top though. Yeah. have'em in the parking lot. Yeah. Donut day, topless day. I think I was coming back from Donut Day and I was talking to my mom. She called her for some reason. She's whatcha you doing? I'm like, I'm coming back from donut day. I just said it out loud. She's what is that? thinking that was that something like donut shop? And I was like, no, we skinned down.'cause she's you guys are a bunch of like kids. Oh, totally. Yeah. And I was like, yes, that's exactly, hundred percent. Yeah. That sums up this whole experience pretty well. That's exactly, that's right. That's right. The little quirks and it's a lot of fun. Do the powder Panic of Viking though. Okay, let's do the powder panic. What is powder Panic? Yeah. Oh, manga. Do you have powder panic. So sometimes do you suffer from it? Yes, absolutely. I feel like you do too. Al though. That's mine's slightly less than Is it though? I don't know. We have the lie detector. Whitney, is it? I don't know. Maybe not. No. Just like untouched powder. It's yeah. Yeah. If you're going uphill on a powder day and eight people a hundred yards ahead, you're sprinting to beat'em. Yeah. We're Jason. We're Jason. it's like buck fever, right? It is. Yeah. No, I was talking to, Carl in the lot and I was like, you're also just super competitive. He's yep. Yeah. It's an element to it. Absolutely. Yeah. A little powder panic. When you get a great run down. Yeah, you do. You can worse tracks. That's the motivation, right? Yeah. Carl said it, he is I like skiing fresh powder. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's something special about having a blank campus, even if there's two or three tracks on, it's not the same. I agree with you. That's a blank. And the best thing about going up the night, you can see the headlamp. So even today we're like, there's four people, Carl's that we're catching them. Yeah. And and he's we're gonna go off at a, whatever normal pace. And all of a sudden I'm like, this is like a 30 pace dude. just full on. I took my jacket off two minutes into the thing.'cause I was like, this is gonna be one of these days. And it was just, I was just holding on the car the entire time. That can also be a hard o scene, if somebody's doing a pr, personality, you, that's a whole scene. Everybody's cheering'em on. Amazing. checking the time. That's, those are always cool mornings. They always amazing. The Viking gets outta the truck and like spandex, the lagger and spandex. it's am I in some like zombie apocalypse? Exactly. Guys, you must have an epic powder panic tailor too, from. Try to get to Halbrook first. Oh.'cause that can be, it's quite minutes and seconds. Seconds between first tracks or not. you were with Goat and Warchild. Yeah. I know. One day right. Where it was a bit of a kerfuffle. Tight. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit of a kerfuffle sometimes comes down to the change. Where do you change over? It's got a little more competitors than, yeah. Do what you gotta do. On all rapid fire questions. And I want all of you to answer these Viking best and worst part about being a hardo. Oh. best part is, I guess the camaraderie and the friendship. Yep. And, worst part. It's all good. Yeah, it's all good. hey, that's a good, that's a good thing. Yeah. No, biking does not have a bad part about it. I don't. Right on. I think Gotti said it earlier, but I'll let you Yeah, I do. Yeah. I think the best part is I skin more than I probably would if I, were left to my own devices. committing ahead of time makes me, never bail. and that's also the worst part is not being able to bail.'cause you just, you can't do that. it's so illegal. Yeah. Yeah. I would say the same theme, which is comradery and. diving deep into relationships with individuals and getting to know people at a deeper level because of skinning and being outside like that than you would just, going to a bar or having super, light conversations, maybe just gonna a gym or something. Yeah. So you just, you get really deep, especially you get, sometimes there's only two of you or you have to separate from a pack and you can just dig really deep. And I think those meaningful conversations, whether you're having it or you're listening, are incredibly impactful for, male adults. And you feel like you're really going from there. I don't really have a bad thing about it. Okay. sometimes the, I, the only thing I would say is sometimes the timing doesn't, I just don't like the timing. that's only because I like to go earlier and some people like to go later, so that, that'd be only sometimes for me. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. I'll echo what everyone said, especially Adam. love being able to spend time with my buddies and get to know them better and laugh and, all. Packaged up in this kind of morning experience that includes exercise on a beautiful mountain with sunrises and powder and a great rundown. Like I, I think everyone would agree. You drive out of there, you get home, you're just absolutely flying like the day you're home early. Yeah. Oftentimes home early enough to see the kids get'em to school. It's such an incredible way to start your day. And it's not really a bad thing, but I am exhausted for six months. That is true. That's actually, that is true. I, by myself, sitting the raccoon sitting my office chair, I'm like, oh my God, I so incredibly tired. Yeah. Keep but worth it. There's a reason. Totally. I've never regretted getting out bed. Same. Yeah. Good call there. I gotta take a stab. The next one. This is gonna be a fun one. Yep. Best ski run with the hardos. Adam, let's start with you. Oh man, this is so difficult, but there's only, there's one that comes to mind. was last year when it was the member of the mountain was on wind hold. and it was like a hundred mile an hour winds. And Carl and I went to the chin and then almost literally got blown over. Coming across the top to the point where it was absolutely dangerous. I got blown like 20 feet point. At one point, Carl came over to me with that look in his eyes like, should we actually be doing this right now? And I was like, yeah, of course. And then we went 50 yards and got in there and I think it was the pinnacle of the amount of snow we had last year. And it was untouched the whole brook. And it was one of those ones of Brook you could star from the top. And I don't think we stopped. Yeah. Until you got all the way down to where that hard 90 degree turn is and you could just send the whole thing. And then we did it again. Yeah. skinned all the way back up again. it's really hard to pick which is the best, but like that one's there. I'll just throw one. Another comment is one of my other favorite ones is yeah. Like three inches on a groom. Yeah. With the whole group fire. And everybody's hooting, doing their sprays jumping around. Yeah. I get so much joy from just like same, trying to not hit somebody and kind of weave in between some, what do we call, what do we call that? Adam? What do we call that when we have that group altogether on a powder day? What do we call that? The dolphin pot. The dolphin po. That's right. The dolphin pod. That is the dolphin. It literally is like dolphins leaping. It's just everywhere. It's just a wild surfing and leaping out the water. Yeah. Godfather. Best run. It's gotta be Halbrook and I can't even remember when it was three years ago, four years ago. Sunny day, right? Yeah. Oh yeah. Blue with the photos slower. It was blower that day. Like foot of fresh snow. Yep. just the traverse out, like you just didn't want it to end. Yep. Like the entire way up. I didn't want it to end. normally I want the way up to end. You know where I, it was so beautiful. The sunrise. Yeah. And you're going through all the trees and we drop in and it just was waist deep and it's great dead. I still even remember the light at the bottom as you're in the tree, all the trees are covered. All those birch trees blue. Yeah. It's just like I still, that is my favorite day ever. That was a good one. What about you Carl? He's had a lot of Today. Today? Today. Today. Yesterday. Sometimes just a good sunrise and definitely the whole group. Having a whole group getting together. Yep. maybe an inversion under cast day with a good sunrise sun. Sunrise days are magical. Yeah. Yep. Right on. Commissioner. so I think it was 2019, 20. And it was a multi-day storm. It started off wet and then it got very dry. and it was windy, so the gondola did not spin. And after two days, it was about 40 inches of snow. And then the sun came out and we just, we had a group that, headed to Halbrook and it's, just waist deep and just I've got a lot of video from that. Was that the Yeah. Boy. That was the Yeah. Boy. Yeah, boy. we had goat with he on it. he had a left footed turn. Where the snow came up to his neck. And, Teddy lost his mind. I did throwback, maybe some PTSD from the fraternity days or something. Yes. Fraternity. Fraternity came out. Yells out. Yeah. Boy. And I was losing my mind too. and so just that the whole experience, when you're skinning to Halbrook and you realize the storm over produced. Yeah. Oh my God. Look, smell's been there yet no track. It's hard to achieve these days. Right now we're into the red light control out there. Oh my God. I can't believe I ever, so like the anticipation builds and then when it's that deep, it was the end of the season. I'm sure the stake was above a hundred. Just the quality of the run and with your friends and just laughing, having such a great time. I've had a lot of runs like that, but that one stands out. Yeah, right on Ted Zilla. It's gotta be a rundown hayride. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's always a groomed hayride. I can't think of one particular by last winter. Yeah. a foot on a groom and he ride. Yeah. Just It just doesn't get better. But the day Gotti was talking about in Halbrook was, yeah, it's a tough question. It's, oh yeah. you could, we've had a lot of days, I've had some where it's like a foot on nose dive I, where it's and its light and I'm like, it doesn't get better than that. So even today, honestly it was fricking unbelievable. just I feel like I say that all the time. that was the best run of my life. Which quick diversion, how many All time Alltimers. She runs it. We have last year, was it about 70 to 80 all time. that's a hard o term. All timer. All time. All timer. Alright, next question. How many days did you go last year? Skin Days or skin? Say skin skins. Hardos are built around skin. So runs, yeah. No, how many skins. And if you only know vert,'cause you guys scope so much, you can fall back on vert and we'll divide it by 2000. you can do math, we can do math, hard math. I had about 178 skins last year. Wow. Impressive. A hundred seventy seven hundred seventy eight. Nice. Gotti. I think I was only around 50 last year. All right. And you like to travel town for the record? I spend the month in of January in Costa Rica. Gati is our resident surfer here at the Hard House. Would you say you're also somewhat of a Nordic legend up at Trap Family Launch? I do love a Nordic ski. skate to the cabin is, pretty epic gout as, impactful as a skin up Mansfield, in my opinion. Agreed. It hits a little different though. Yeah, it's different experience. Viking, you can give vert too if you want Vert. Yeah. I think 150 skins last year. Yep. But three years previous was, all three years were 200, 400,000 vert. Nice. Okay. Wow. North of that. So Commissioner hit my season's Best one 50 last year. Yeah. And had 1 49 2 years ago. And GOAT was like, I can't believe you didn't go for one 50. And it was the end, I think Donut Day. I was at 1 46. Yeah. And I think Bob was at 97. Yeah. And Bob, I said, I'm done. And Bob said, I'm gonna check out North Slope the next day. And I said, Bob, let's just make a pact. We'll just go until we get our number. And we did. So it was awesome. But yeah, till the bitter end, a lot of grass skiing to get 150 skis. It goes at 1 0 9. Oh nine last summer. that was good. This year. Might break some records for people though. given the fact that we are, I can't even believe I come at 28 already. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like how many, oh, this will be big. Yeah. Big, real big. We're also entering in Ice age, in case anybody didn't know according to Geraldo. But anyways, that's right. That's not Commissioner the next one. All right. Forget crampons on a thaw freeze day or bring the wrong ski on a sleeper powder day. This is what you'd rather have. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta pick one or the other. Oh, wrong. Ski, easy pick crampons. Yeah, that's what I don't want to forget. Yeah. I don't want forget crampons. Yeah, same. That's easy. Okay gentlemen. What is more uncomfortable? A sword fight at the hell. Brick entrance on a powder day or a death stare from the parking lot of incoming lift servers. Hell brick entrance a hundred percent. Yeah. But you love that too though. I do. Okay. I do. but that you're sticking to that. Yeah, I stick to that. Gotti. Gotta transition quick at the top of Halbrook, right? Yeah. probably the lift servers.'cause I've known them longer. Yeah. Yep. I'll agree there. The lifts are debts there. Yep. Oh, I don't like a sword fight at the top of Halbrook. You know what I mean? One of the things I love about skinning is it can be very peaceful. Yeah. And very zen. And it's, becomes not that when it's a competition to get down and you're racing or someone's in front of you. Yeah. I'll go with the Halbrook sword fight too. Yeah. I got,'cause it's much more personal.'cause you know the person, if I don't know the person tight quarters too. You know everybody. Yeah. Tight quarters. Yeah. Real tight quarters. Everyone's racing like, you forget your goggles put on. It's just trying to get down here first. it's like hands are frozen. Hands are frozen. You don't change over anymore. the whole thing throws out. Yeah. we had a hardell gratitude circle, the top of nose dive on the anniversary of Big Al's passing. It was spectacular. we had one, last winter at the top of Skytop. for those that don't know big now, created the, kissed the sky. Embrace the earth sign. Yeah. I love that sign. special moments are great. Would you rather have one of those, or, a lot of us have kids that ski race. We might be looking for a fancy coffee after dropping them off. I personally love a quad shot latte at the Beery. Which one would you rather have? The gratitude circle or that quad shot latte? I'm a big fan of the gratitude circles. yeah. We should do more of those. We should fire them up. It's just simple things that you're grateful Yeah. For absolutely. Got I'm, I am all about the gratitude. Okay. Yeah. And I, I have to add, early season this year after just an, it must have been like our third or fourth day, and it was just incredible powder. When we stopped at the bottom of the junction of National and Nose Dive, Ted just came up and gave me a hug. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, this is, I've been on fire with the celebration. This is amazing. And I felt it was just so well timed and that was a lot of gratitude that day. Like, where are we? How do we get to live here? I can't believe this is our existence. I'm loving how this question went. Yeah. Same for me. I'm a big gratitude circle and big hugs. Yeah. Yeah. At the top. Totally. And telling people you love them. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big thing. It's important. Yeah, it is. Commissioner, I'm with the group on that one. All right. Love the gratitude circles. Yeah. We gotta fire up more of those, huh? Gotti, didn't you put some prayer flags up at the transition area? I think they're still there. Tucked way in the woods. All right. Last rapid fire. Two inches of fresh powder in a groom. And it is overcast the two inches or a legendary sunrise. Is it a good groom on the, that's, what the sunrise is It's hard pack. Hard pack, yeah. Dust on crust, you're saying? No, just like Okay. Frozen granular. Oh, frozen granular, but legendary sunrise. Yeah. You guys are saying how much you like the sunrise. I'll just, I'll leave it up to you. I'll take both. No, I'll take, that's not how this works. At the GON podcast. That's how Adam has lived his life. That's right. I'm going with the powder. I'll go with two sunrise, two inch unpacked powder. Yep. You gotta do it as the photographer. I gotta go. sunrise. Yes. Excellent. Excellent. You're also so rare. They are. Yeah, they can be. We had a nice stretch, was it? We did have last week. Yeah. Yep. That was good. Fired. Right on. Thanks everybody. we always wrap up just chatting about STO a little bit. obviously all you guys have been around town for a while at different times. how have you seen Stoke change over the years? I know like Carl and Gotti grew up here. Adam moved here a little later, but just general town, how have you seen it change? it's obvious this comes up everywhere in other podcasts. It's, it's hard to afford to live here. So the two big things that means, right? It's people that work here or people that just wanna live here that are young, it's really hard for them to do that. Like when Ted, when you and I were growing up with Andrew. And Carl there, there was a pretty vibrant kind of ski bum scene, which was cool. it'd be great if we could have that again. The other thing is, as a parent of young kids, they're not so young anymore, but, I think there's so much vibrancy of the community when there are young families that move here because they're drawn to the outdoors and they love being active and they, carry that energy and spirit through the community. I grew up here and, but moved to Boston when my wife Amy and I moved back with our kids we're very young. I attended, there's this thing called the Ghost Walk at the elementary school where all the elementary school kids, chills right now, come walking down Park Street up to Main Street and this beautiful sunny day. All the parents are out. And I was like, oh my God, this is the most amazing place in the world. And it is. and I want sto to be a place where young families can continue to afford to move here with the kids. You're seeing some slight decline in enrollment in the schools, right? Yeah. I want, full-time residents, Young families to be able to move here. Yeah. That's a good goal. Yeah, it was definitely interesting. I grew up in Colchester, which is 45 minutes, obviously been skiing here. since I was. Actually, I started snowboarding, but living up there, Shelburn, Colchester, south Burlington, the kind of areas that I lived for most of my adult life. And, you have the communities, right? And so like when people would say community, you know what that kind of meant. But I remember the first time I moved here, literally one of the first days, I think maybe it was Porter or somebody else was like, do you want me to grab your kids for you and drop'em off? And I was like, what? what are you? It was like so foreign to me because it just doesn't happen anymore. Yeah. And then I realized that's just like cool. Second nature, like to me, I feel like literally all the kids in this group that we have, are also like my kids. And I know it the same way for them. And we treat'em the same way. And they're, the other day I was just, I was telling port this the other day, I was literally sitting in my house and I just heard my door open and I was like, I wonder who's here. And it was Cammy just coming around the corner. She's Hey guys. And just walked right in, walked upstairs, went up there, and it was just, it's just fun to, to see that. So it's pretty powerful when you have that type of community that's also centralized around activity. Yeah. Which is also pretty critical. Healthy lifestyle. it's'cause the parents are active, or active kids are active. and then everyone likes to have fun too. Totally. Cool. Yeah. Man, I have to agree with Porter on the right, like my biggest fear for Stowe is that loss of community. And the families that live here that make it up. Yeah. And also the, yeah, the ski bums, right? STO has always had that kind of connection to wealth. It's, the New York City money that helped build sto and EIG money. Yeah. Yeah. like it wouldn't be the place it is today without that money, but it was different then, like there were a ton of rich people that lived here that didn't show off their money, right? They assimilated into the community and volunteered and did things. And it wasn't about the money, it was about the love of STO and skiing. And I think that's still here in our thread, in our fabric. But, as it's just such a destination to move and if it becomes truly unaffordable, we won't have those kind of ski bums at heart that are still here. Community won't be the same. Yeah. And as me with young kids, like I. I really hope our enrollment doesn't, continue to shrink and,'cause I want my kids to have, the same experience that your kids are having going through the schools here. and I had one other thought on that. STO is, it's such a fun place to live and I already lost my thought. it is fun though, right? You have rivers, you have, the m mountain biking scene, the gravel scene. I'm just trying to help you with your thought too. Yeah, I lost it. And we're here to help each other. This is the hard of safe space Gotti. That's, it's exactly right. Yeah. No, seriously. Thanks for sharing that though. Yeah. Really insightful stuff. All right, gentlemen, we wrap up every Octagon episode with this one question holding hands. I'm already holding the commissioner's hands. if STO did not exist. Where would you live? Can only pick one location. Geraldo, I will start, I originally answered this as Waitsfield'cause I just love Vermont, but that feels like a cop out. It does. Okay. It is it. Thank you. Really it cop out and so I have, yeah. Thank you. Another answer. Yeah. To me I love living in a ski town and so I start thinking, alright, what are some other ski towns I would like? And obviously, the ski town's out west are spectacular, but I want a ski town that has a year-round community. And so I can't say it like researched this, right? But clearly there are some ski towns out west that don't have that community. It's all, it's just all second homes, or hotels and what have you. Our cousin engineer lives in Steamboat, and everything I've heard from him is, it's it's a town with a vibrant youth athletic scene and Reminded me of sto. I'm gonna go with Steamboat. Alright. Just given that I know that it has that community, it's the first time I've heard that good choice. I too, before we even actually moved to sto full time, we had actually been to Jackson And potentially looked at real estate out there. Yeah. and so I would probably move to Jackson, not just for the skiing, but for the mountain biking and also for the hunting, the outside, the hiking, like the kind of river scene and we go there two or three times a year. So it's an awesome place. Yeah. We did a Hardo trip out there too. Yep. We did my, we did. Yeah. Gotti, it's a tough one for him. It is a tough one'cause he's our resident surfer. Yeah, I know. But I'm just, I'm gonna stop my brain to Costa Rica, but that's'cause I live here. If I couldn't live here, then I would only one location. Yeah, I think it would have to be in Montana. Probably like outside Bozeman. yep. Beautiful. Good choice. Viking? I had, I don't know, somewhere in Europe, probably ski town. Okay. Wow. I'm half Swedish. Yeah. So I was thinking Sweden originally, but yeah, it could be. How was the skiing in Sweden? Could be Switzerland or Austria. Ski France too. Cool. Yeah. Good choice. Yeah. Patty, you didn't answer. Yeah. Oh, that sounds, oh yeah. Okay. I was just making fun of Geraldo for two locations. So one probably Rangely, Maine. Yeah. I'm actually doing a trip there end of January. Saddleback. what is that why? I've lived out west, I've lived in Park City in Lake Tahoe. Yeah. Love it out there. But I just, I like being on the East coast. Yeah. Yeah. I want to be able to ski. And I wanna be able look for Moose Sandler. Yeah. Where there's more moose. Yeah. you can do gravel biking and all that. Yeah. It's only probably three and a half hours away. Oh, sweet. I went there a couple springs ago. Just super cool town. yeah. Mountains around. So beautiful. And I said you can't do two, but if not there, probably the white mountains somewhere in New Hampshire. But gentlemen, thank you so much. That was awesome, pat. thank you. Great. Thank you. The Hardo round table has now concluded. what time tomorrow, gents? We've got two start times I believe. Okay. We do have start 6 14, 4 59 and 9 6 14. The big game hunters back at it. All right. Make sure you back in. Thanks guys. That was awesome. Hope you enjoyed that episode of the Octagon Podcast. Remember to like us on Instagram and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. See you next time.