Season 2: #15 Jack Morris: Building Community Through Art at The Front Four Gallery

This week we had the pleasure of bringing Jack Morris into the Octagon Studio. Born and raised in Stowe, Jack once dreamed of becoming an athlete — until a life-altering heart diagnosis in his teens forced him to rethink everything. After traveling and developing a passion for photography, he returned home for heart surgery and made a bold decision at just 23 years old: to take over the former Robert Paul Gallery and re-brand it as Front Four Gallery — named after the legendary ski trails of Mount Mansfield.

A photographer, a painter, and now one of the youngest gallery owners in Vermont, Jack is reshaping the role that art plays in Stowe.

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This episode of The Octagon is sponsored in part by Union Bank. Since 1891, union Bank has made banking a little bit easier and more convenient for you by investing in the success of its local community. Your community headquartered in Mooresville Union Bank has 18 branches and three loan centers throughout Northern Vermont and New Hampshire. Union Bank is a proud supporter of the Octagon Podcast, as well as many fantastic community oriented endeavors such as the STO Trails Partnership, the Vermont Ski and Snowboard Museum, STO Land Trust, ski Vermont Viba and Richmond Mountain Trails, to name a few of the over 200 nonprofits they work with. To learn more, go to ub local.com. Welcome listeners to the Octagon Podcast, where we explore the stories, people, and places that make Dover mod so legendary. I'm your host, Mike Carey. Joined by my co-host Ted Thorndyke. We are excited to introduce our guest today, Jack Morris, born and raised in Stowe Jack. One dreamed of becoming an athlete and told a life altering heart diagnosis in his teens, forced him to rethink everything. After traveling and developing a passion for photography, he returned home for heart surgery. It made a bold decision at just 23 years old to take over the former Robert Paul Gallery and rebrand it as Front four Gallery named after the legendary ski trails of Mount Mansfield, a photographer, a painter, and now one of the youngest gallery owners in Vermont. Jack is reshaping the role that art plays in sto. Welcome, Jack. Hello everybody. Thank you for having me. Great to have you here. Great to have you here, Jack. So let's, let's dive in. When did you start to realize a passion for art? I always felt pretty artistically inclined all throughout, high school, art class was always one of my favorites. and I, I actually have, dyslexia, so it was, you know, it was sports and arts that really, you know, caught my attention and, and I leaned into and was passionate about. I always saw sports as what I wanted to pursue professionally and, and full time, like for my life. but then when sports became not as much. of an option. I really kind of saw art in a new light and, and then explored it, so, yep. Cool. And was sports skiing or was it It was downhill skiing, yeah. backcountry skiing, but primarily it was actually endurance mountain biking. Oh, wow. so there's like this one race in Europe that's just like a thousand riders going from the top of a mountain all the way down into the valley. right now. I'm blanking on the name of it. Yeah. But it is so gnarly and it's like the coolest race in the world. Mass start a thousand people. Yeah. Sick. Yeah, it's crazy. so yeah, long distance endurance, mountain biking, downhill mountain biking and, and fortunately I'm, I'm healthy and able to do that today, so. Oh yeah. Nice. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah, I'd love to hear that. I've doing a ton of that. So, from a broad perspective, you know, we talk about a passion for art. What, what specifically was it? Photography or, what components did you gravitate towards? Absolutely. it was photography. I realized that really throughout my entire life, I was using my iPhone and my iPod to get, you know, shots of my friends skiing or, you know, whatever it was, you know, moss that caught my eyes in the woods ice, on a riverbed. I was skiing. And when I, you know, sports was taken away from the situation, I still found myself noticing little nuances about the world and, and my surroundings and finding, you know, beauty in the, in small details, larger landscapes. and then I was in, south America during a gap year. after high school and I literally had like an iPhone eight with a cracked camera. And I was, at the Al Sea at deas, which is like a remote waterfall, area. And I actually, wanted to go there because of a Red Bull video of a dude, wakeboarding down it with a winch. And it's seven waterfalls that end in this huge waterfall. That's wild. and it's just in the middle of, you know, the mountains. Mm-hmm. In the middle of nowhere. It's one bus in, one bus out, and you know, we're walking on the road hiking up and there's a 300 foot drop to our right. It's really, really cool. That's cool. and, so it was honestly, I'd say that location, alone kind of. Just like seeing the world and like the scale of things. it was the first time I'd been around like massive mountains. Yeah. and it was, you know, really healing, I think just to be out there. Yeah. Man. see the world. And at the time I, I was dealing with, you know, I was what, 18, 19 dealing with a, a heart condition that my doctors were uncertain if it was gonna ever get better, or if I was gonna need a heart transplant at 23 or if I could do a normal surgery. you know, the question of total heart failure and, and literally, you know, having heart attacks or palpitations, was, was, you know, always being talked about from when I was 16, onward. So it was pretty, pretty major news to get and, just being out there in the nature. kind of on my own with, with, two of my buddies who are both Chilean. I actually met them as, they were j one workers here. Oh, cool. Nice. I picked them up while they were hitchhiking. And you went to visit 'em? Yeah, yeah. It was two years later I went to visit them. It was, it was pretty cool. I was talking to 'em, I was like, oh, I think I'm gonna do a gap year. Like, well, hey, you'll have, free housing all up and down Chile and, you know, home cooked meals. Done. Okay. Sounds good. I guess I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick up my next batch of hitchhiker, pick up some J ones. Awesome. So on that trip, you know, you talk about your heart condition, we're able to at least just hike around or, you know what Yep. What were the limitations? Yeah. At that time. So at that time, I wasn't dealing with n nearly as much, of the physical. effects of the condition. I mean, it's a, you know, it's a gradual, decline, degenerative condition. Okay. It's actually the same thing that Tim Ziegler had. Yep. it affects different people at different times, so, it, you know, started early for me, but yeah. you know, it, it just happened for my dad too. so he just got a heart transplant last year. Oh, wow. Which is pretty crazy and that was a, a huge deal. Mm. but I feel very fortunate, the doctors basically said, you know, for people that it starts young if they don't find it when you're young. sometimes you'll be playing college, you know, lacrosse, which is probably what I would've done if I went to college. and you can drop dead on the field. Right. so I felt, you know, really upset about it in the, in the moment, but it, honestly, it's formed so much perspective. Yeah. I really was forced to grow up. Right early and see the world and see life as gratitude. Such a blessing to be able to experience it and, take every day that you, that you have. That's cool. Yeah. Those moments do that right. To make you think. All right. Life short. I make the most of it life lifeing. So then I'm, I'm in high school and I'm just like hitting my head against the wall. Like, get me outta here. I wanna see the world. World Get me outta stove. Yeah. I wanna live. Yeah, exactly. So it was tough, but mean, I got through, I was a, I was a B plus student better than me. Yeah. What were you, Mike? I don't remember. It was different back then. That's the great, I love that. It was different back then. Yeah. so that's, so, so you're traveling around in Chile? Yeah. And then. Take us through. I mean, it's not that many years that you decide to come back to Stowe, so what, what led to all that? Yeah, so, it was, it was actually, I was only in Chile for three months, and I guess I didn't really answer your question fully. I flew into, Santiago and I went to Valparaiso, which, I went to my first casino there. It was kind of funny. Wow. Chilean Casino. It was fun. I, I lost all the money I had, but have like a Quentin Tarantino movie or something. Yeah. but Val Preso actually was, always a city that I loved. There's a huge street art scene there, so like graffiti right up your alley. tiling really, really cool. Nice. and honestly, it's, it's, it's always been, you know, a really, huge mountain biking place. They do a annual Valparaiso downhill, which is a street mountain biking. Tournament or competition, where they are going down, like these narrow staircases like flying. I think I've seen that. Is that the It's one of the biggest Red Bull. I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that. That's insane. Competitions. It's cool. It's so cool. Yeah. I didn't get to go for that. It's in February every year, and so I, I want to go, one of these years. But yeah. I went to Val Preso, then I went to Talca, which is a couple hours south of, Santiago. And from there I went to, conce and Vica, and there's like a volcano you can ski on. there's a whole bunch of really cool places. Places, yeah. and then up into the mountains, you know, on the west side of the country, so, yeah. Yeah. Or sorry, east side of the country. Yeah. And so, and then this starts to form your passion Yeah. For seeing, seeing these things Yeah. And taking pictures. And whole time I'm hitting my head against the wall saying, why don't I have a professional grade camera? Yeah. seeing, seeing all these huge landscapes, I mean, the scale out there is really pretty remarkable. and then, seeing the diversity of culture when you go like north and south in, in Chile is really cool. You know, there's like desert and then mountain and all surfing, a whole bunch of different types of types of people. And I was fortunate that my friends were all English teachers, so all of their friends were English teachers. I wish I learned more Spanish there, but it was kind of like a cheat code because every single person we interacted with just wanted to talk in English with me in English. Yeah. but nevertheless, I met a lot of really nice people and, Just meeting the people too made me think that like, you know, photography is such a great way to like, document just like portraiture and mm-hmm. And, you know, it really, it was mostly the nature, but also just like the people and like the, the, you know, energy of the city's. Yeah. and, being able to document that actually seemed really interesting. so for the first time in years, I, it was like the lights turned on and I was seeing the world in color again. and the only thing I, I needed or wanted to, pursue that feeling of this is really cool. and the, the world is beautiful. Life is beautiful. Was getting a camera and then just going out mm-hmm. And seeing what I could capture. So I came home after Chile. I worked at, place in Richmond. stone Corral. Stone Corral. Yeah. I worked for Billy at Stone Corral. I think he's now the chef. Mike knows. Yeah. I mean, hey, they, they made some good food there. Yeah, they did. And yeah, so, I worked there for three, four months, spent all the money I made there on a really nice Sony camera. Nice. Yeah. And then about, three and a half months later, COVID-19 Right. Came around. Right. And the world shut down. And I was planning on doing a professional course in Montreal and I just was like, yeah, there's no way I'm moving to a major city right now in the middle of all this. So, I consider that actually one of the. most important things that happened to me. it forced me to teach myself how to take photos and I literally went out for two and a half, three years, almost every single day. whether it was road tripping around New England, I did two, two or three, full crossings of the US in cars, during COVID? on the later side. Yeah. I was driving with my friends out to their college or whatever, and then I'd fly home. Yeah. or fly out and drive back home with them. so, so on those trips, if your buddies moving out, there was the main focus for you photography. Yeah. For you, you kind of saw it as an opportunity. Yeah. keep, keep working on the craft and Yeah. So my buddy Chris Atkinson grew up with him here. He, he was gonna school in Boulder and so I would drive out there with him and then. another buddy of mine, that went to school was Nico Perada. we flew out to LA and actually drove somebody's car all the way from their home in LA back to, STO where they live. And, that was an awesome one. We, they were just put as many miles on it as you want and we don't need it for four weeks. so I think we, we spent a little over two weeks. It wasn't, we, we kind of were pretty quick, but, we could have taken more time, but we went like all the way up to the Yosemite and, and across to Salt Lake City to visit my buddy, Peyton. And then just tooled around. Yeah. Utah, Colorado, and then meandered back, east. And are you seeking out more landscapes, more people, all of it? Mm-hmm. Just what's, what sort of is your passion for sure. So, people, I always love to take photos of people when I can have a conversation with 'em. I, I'm less inclined to do like, street photography where it's just like, you know, in passing you see somebody sitting at a bench, right? Snap a photo. I have a couple cool photos like that, but generally it's people that I, I, I know that I'm friends with, that I do portraiture of. there is a huge, side of my, my interests as a photographer that's journalistic where I do want to do environmental portraiture, and capture the story of, of a stranger. But, you know, talk to them about who they are. So whether that's a, in Vermont's a perfect place for that. I mean, you have librarians or teachers that have been in the same role for 50 years here and, getting a picture of them, whether it's at their desk or in, in their favorite part of where they work. Mm-hmm. and then talking to them about, what made them want to stay in, in that role for 50 years, well, what does it all, what does it mean to you? Yeah, exactly. that's really interesting to me. But, I'd say my primary focus as a photographer is kind of abstract nature, contemplative nature, photography. so a lot of closeups, kind of what I was saying that I'd capture with my iPhone, as I was growing up. that has extended into my photography now that I use, different equipment. I, I don't even use high-end modern cameras. Actually. I use almost exclusively film cameras. Oh, cool. Oh, wow. So, yeah, my primary shooter is a, 1980s hael blood 500. That's awesome. six by six centimeter, camera. So it's a medium format. Shoots this big, giant negative that's about two and a half by two and a half inches. And, you just get a ton of detail in it. Mm-hmm. but you still have some amount of variability where it's not you don't have live feedback from a digital Yeah. Screen. You're quite literally mm-hmm. thinking about the photo before you're taking it, and you have to make it, make it a photo, yourself. You have, all of your dials and, and you have to mm-hmm. Set 'em to the right settings and, and make a photo. Sometimes I'll take two hours on a photo. Sometimes I'll take 45 minutes setting up a photo. That's cool. and it's always my goal to take If I can one photo. Wow. So I have this one photo of Bingham Falls, which is stunning. It's my favorite photo of Bingham's out there. I might be biased, but, I, it was a fall day. It had been pouring rain and the sky just opened up in the afternoon and I, walked up the mill trail, to Bingham's and there was just nobody there. but the sky was nice. It was golden hour. So you can see this, really nice golden light up above the falls. And I was composing my photo for probably 35 minutes before I realized the shot I want. Mm-hmm. I need to be chest deep in the middle of the lower pool. And so I set up my 45-year-old camera, on a tripod in four foot deep water. about six, maybe 10 inches above the water with a, Remote shutter wire. Yeah. And I do, I think it was a 10 minute exposure, with like what's called an ND filter is a a 10 stop nd filter. So it's a thousand times percent less light going into the camera. so it's over 10 minutes. I'm capturing one photo and, freezing my ass off. Right. mid, late fall. And fingers are numb, lips are blue. by the end of this photo you need some waiters or something? Yeah, literally. and I develop it that night and it's still one of my favorite photos. One shot. One shot. One shot. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. By the end of the 10 minutes the was done. Yeah. But you love the process though, right? I couldn't have even taken another shot if I wanted to. Right. and that's kind of, for me, part of the beauty of film photography is. You really have to work for the results, I think. Yeah. It's a puzzle, a challenge to get that shot. Yeah. Yeah. that's cool. But along with the, the host blood, I actually, love to experiment with old completely random cameras. So I have one that I call the Lunchbox. It's a GraphX series B, from probably the early forties, and I've taken three of my favorite photos on that camera. Nice. Huh. so I've learned that it's not the gear, it is the content of the photo and the meaning Yeah. from the artist. Yeah. that really, dictates if it's a, a good photo or not. Yeah. It's not how many megapixels you have. Do you think those old cameras take a warmer picture than a digital, or is it, or just sort of, because you think it's that craft of it that, yeah. so when you're working with film, you have the different film stocks and you can think of those basically as. you know, the presets you have on Instagram where you can swipe through? Yeah. And it like color tone? Mm-hmm. Or color grade your, your photo. so pretty much with film, unless you are printing it on paper in a dark room, you have to, you have to digitize it. and anytime you digitize any photograph, you're taking a photo of a digital camera. you're using Sony or Canons, automatic color grading software that they've developed. So that's the Canon look, the Sony look, hablo has their digital cameras and they have hael blood true color, or natural color, which is beautiful. Looks like real life, which is awesome. Yeah. But when you're digitizing film, they've developed softwares that mimic the printed look. but even then, you basically are able to manipulate it the same way as you can a digital camera. Yeah. photo. So I do digitize my negatives. I try to keep 'em relatively, similar to what they would look like printed in a dark room, but I still take some liberties there. again, it's less like, it's more about, you know, what's the artist's message there and, and, how do I want it to look like I, I care less about, it's a photo photograph. I have to keep it pristine and perfect as I captured it. If you're digitizing something, it's already not natural Right. As it was, you know? Yeah. so, you love taking photos and mm-hmm. The whole process of it. Is, is it an everyday thing for you? You know, the minute you walk outta it? 'cause I, I, I'd almost guess, especially in a place like this, the minute you walk out of the house, you're just always checking things out. Yeah. Is that kind of like an everyday thing for you? I wish it was more of an everyday thing for me right now. little busy getting, getting the gallery, opening the gallery, starting the gallery and running the gallery has just completely transformed my life. Yeah. I, I'm a business owner instead of a starving artist and, shift unemployed. so I, I do bring a camera with me everywhere. I have a camera in the car and, I have my iPhone, but, I, I do still go out and take photos. I have about 28 rolls of film that I need to develop right now. and I do all the developing myself. I think that's a really important part. As a, as the artist, to develop my own film. That's something I won't compromise on just because Nice, developing the film. not only do you not wanna mess it up, but there are, I put notes on my roles where it's oh, I think, I might have underexposed or overexposed. Mm-hmm. And depending on how much you agitate the chemicals or how long you put 'em in, or the temperature of the chemicals, it all changes the outcome. which, I wanna have control over as the artist. So you're not dropping it off at CVS for them to develop it? No. God, no. no. And, nothing wrong. I as if I were an amateur, just kind of entering into the film world, I would, I, I went to OTT when I was starting on film with film. in Burlington, they do a great job. Yeah. yeah, they, they're on top of their stuff for sure. Yeah. So is that what led, so you're into photography, how did you get, how did you decide I'm gonna buy a gallery? 'cause that seems like a big jump. It, it was a big jump. so as at 23? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I was 23. Yeah. I was 23. Yeah. yeah, so I just turned 25 now. Yeah. a month ago. But, I got into my first gallery in October of 2022. frog Hollow with a couple of my photos. I Burlington. Yeah. Yeah. this isn't my recommendation because gallerists don't always love it, but I walked right into the gallery with my art. And I showed the director my art right then and there. Daniel, he, he, he is now in Arizona, but he's awesome guy. He was the director there for a couple years. and he really liked that I was a young artist and was passionate about my photography. and that I, I was taking different photos. I said before I'm taking contemplative nature, abstract nature photos. so it's less about the barns and more about the grain of the wood of the barn. Yeah. stuff like that. Yeah. and he really liked the photos and had me apply and I applied, got accepted and then I think I dropped work off on October, like 22nd. And then November 3rd I was having open heart surgery, in Cleveland, Ohio. And, I was recovering from that surgery. and my family noticed that the Robert Paul Galleries was, doing their big sale, closing, retiring sale. so my dad texted me one day, he's you should go in there and see if you can buy any, anything that they are selling. I have a bigger idea. So, well, I walked in there and, I talked to them and, and it was well, are you selling stuff? What, what are you doing with all your, all their things? not the art. and he's oh, we have, you know, maybe a buyer or two that are interested in buying everything. So we're kind of playing it by ear until we hear yes or no from them. And I just ask, what's your ballpark price that you're looking for everything? And, He told me. And then I was driving home. I called my mom and I was would this be absolutely crazy to get a bank loan and open, open my own gallery? and she was yes. But, my parents are amazing, very supportive. Yeah. we, don't have money like that. So it was bank loan or nothing. Yeah. And she said, call, call MAs goma a bank and see like if you can get on the line with, the loan officer. So I was not even finished driving home. I'm on, on the phone talking with, Terry from Mascoma Bank and, figuring out what I would need to provide the bank to secure a loan. And I think between that phone call and when I officially owned the, the. The gallery's assets. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And had a lease less than two months. Wow. Yeah, so we, we made it happen really quick, which was pretty wild. And just started where they left off. We assumed their interview and I say we, it's my ex-girlfriend and I, she quit her job as a barista here in town and she actually did art history, throughout college and, super into art. and, we just kept the gallery open with what inventory they had and very, very quickly brought in our own artists, made it our own, renovating the space. The space really hadn't been touched up in a while. And, we saw it as a blank canvas of its own that we could Yeah, for sure. Imprint our own kind of. Mm-hmm. You know, taste on. And, it was an awesome process. You know, it's been almost three years now. It'll, it'll in April it'll be three years. And it, the gallery looks incredible. Yep. It looks different. I feel bad. I've never been in, but No worries. I've got two pieces right here. I hear that're staring. Hear it pretty often. Actually. I'll be kind of, it's a great location too. It is. so there's people that come in that have been coming in for, to the space for 25, 30 years, and then there's people that are oh, I've been driving by for 20 years. I never, I never liked four in the window. Window. Yeah. I'm coming in. it's right next. Toto seafood. Ted and the bagel. And the bagel. Yeah. It is. Yeah. Make it a one, one stop shop. No. Yeah. You know what? I, it's awesome. So, ed was closed last Saturday. Mm-hmm. Don't know why. But, somebody came in, bought a painting off the wall and said, that's the most expensive piece of salmon I've ever bought. That's awesome. There could be some good, dual marketing there. Yeah, for sure, for sure. This episode is sponsored by Edelweiss Mountain Deli located on the mountain Road. I know for me it is the perfect stopping point after day on the hill to grab my favorite Waitsfield sandwich and a cup of coffee, and for me grabbing my favorite Sweet Sensation bar. Whether you're looking for fresh Vermont pastries, farm to table prepared meals or local Vermont products to add your barbecue, make sure Edelweiss Mountain Deli is your next stop. When it comes to luxury real estate in Stowe Trust, Meg Kaufman of Land Vests, Christie's International Real Estate. Meg Kaufman knows the market inside and out. She's been a part of the Stowe community for over 20 years. Whether you're buying or selling, Meg Kaufman offers a concierge level of service. Taylor, just for you. Backed by the power of land vests and Christie's International. She brings proven success and local insight to every transaction, luxury real estate, local expertise. Meg Kaufman and Land Vests are the team you want on your side. So, so in the space, you talk about your passion for photography. Is is it what, what's in there? Is it photography, paintings? Yep. What, what, what's the inventory in there? Is your own stuff in there. Yeah, I have a couple of my own pieces and, and I'm actually gonna be doing a show of my own work. cool. I, now I've, I've gotten into, a, a variety of different mediums for my own work. I've been doing wall hanging sculptures with. junk. so I have a ton of just random stuff that I accumulate from shipping, receiving artwork mm-hmm. From artists, as well as framing, discard. So from the framing process mm-hmm. There's always extra stuff. Yeah. and I've been making some sculptures out of that stuff. they all involve mirrors right now, which is kind of interesting. They're funky. I've, I've sold one of 'em. I've also, I have just tons of plywood and I've been just painting on plywood. Mm-hmm. so that's been really fun to dive into. Just absolutely no rules, no idea what I'm doing and, and just painting. I recommend that to everybody. I guess that's art, right? Yeah. And I think that's the best art when no limits mets. No boundaries. No rules. Exactly. No. When you're making art and it's I'm making. To specifically to sell it because this type of person is gonna like it. Yeah. It's yes, there's a time and place for that. but I think the, the most compelling art comes from just completely free balling it, not caring at all. and you know, your own soul will then, be imprinted into the work. which I think is, is a really beautiful thing to see in a piece of art. Yeah. When you can really resonate with it. so I made a handful of paintings in 2024, and, a couple of these sculpture things and I hung two of them in the gallery and one of them, it's 40 by 60, this massive black and white, painting. And completely without any, nudge to these people. They'd come up to me and they'd say, that's my favorite piece in the gallery. And it's, it was my first painting I ever made. Mm-hmm. And, you know, it's sitting right next to Craig Mooney and Jim Westfall. Mm-hmm. Yeah. and that was really, it was, it was a really interesting piece. I still have it. it's this massive abstract made of this white background with black lines. and the black lines go fully across, the canvas in all sorts of directions. and very subtly they spell off. We go to war. And it was, something I made after I just read this really heavy article, a couple years ago. It was either about, Ukraine or Gaza And it just felt really overwhelming. and I made. Art about it. So it, it was, really a release Mm-hmm. And people just really resonated with that. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. So the, have the artists, when you bought the gallery, have you changed a lot of the artists? Mm-hmm. And, and what's I mean's? I know you've got red barn type stuff, but I, you've got a, a broad range of things in there. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah. what do you look for, when you're looking to bring in an artist? I look for art that is different from the artists I already have. That's the biggest thing when I'm finding new artists. I'm looking for a lot of artists that are using, physical things now. So I just brought in Duncan Johnson, who works exclusively with wood. Mm-hmm. so he is using discarded wood and, and he's not even a painter really. He just assembles wood from all over Vermont and in New England that he finds it might be a dresser that. it was painted over 10 times over the last a hundred years. He finds it on the side of the road. He'll strip it down to its boards and then use just the natural wear that, is on the wood, to make art. he'll do some image transfers on it. Really, really cool work. I'd recommend looking at it. And if you want one, you can come to me. But, him, I just, brought in a woman from Boston, Sarah Schwartz. She uses dyed wheat. wow. It's, really, really cool, fiber art. it's not like looking, so she'll cut wheat down the middle and then adhere it to a board. and you just get these nice, kind of natural, it's very kind of meditative, huh. but I, I'm curating the gallery with work more now. That's just undeniably human made. and I think that might be, partly in, it's definitely in response to AI and the possibility of ai Yeah. The opposite. Yeah. I love that. But also because it's cool when it's that physical, tangible thing that the artist is, is making, it, it has their, their soul in it. Yeah. Too, what I was saying Makes sense before makes I, I feel like it really, has more of a resonant response than, no offense to photographers. a photograph that can, at this point in, in the world can just be generated. Yep. and filtered and, doctor. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. With Jim West Falon, myself, it's hard to bring in new photographers. 'cause Jim is just, he covers that landscape, Vermont, Barnes, and he has absolutely incredible work, with a really good reason behind it. so. I love Jim's work. I kept him from the previous, gallery. Yeah. I brought in Craig Mooney actually. Yeah. He wasn't showing anywhere in Vermont. Huh. and he, he basically said, I like you and that's why I'm, I'm showing at your gallery. so that was awesome. and I've brought in, I don't know, I think right now we have over 28 artists that I represent. That's awesome. Yeah. It's cool. So who, who do you have usually coming in to check out the gallery purchase art? Is it locals, people from neighboring towns? Yeah. I have people up for the weekends. have a lot of people from Boston and New York. Okay. all around New England, but there's also a ton of locals. And the locals, they actually just come in and check up on me, which is nice. Mm-hmm. I, I love that. I have a couple people that they go to Ed's still seafood, every I've seen week. Yeah. And you know, they just come pop in. Yeah. It's, it's really nice. expensive piece of salmon. That's, that was so funny. That's the thing. Yeah. I'm love that story. I told when I, when they sent, said that to me, I was like, yeah, that's what I pay ed for. but yeah, no, it's good neighbors, with Max and Ed there. Mm-hmm. And Matt at Woodland. I mean, they're all really lovely. Yeah. Yeah. lovely people. Yes. Good spots. So all walks as far as customer. Yeah. And, a lot of second homeowners are my main clientele I'd say. But, you know, I do a lot of, I'm doing more consulting. So if people have a blank wall that's been bugging 'em for, five years, sometimes people are oh, this wall, we bought this house and you know, we haven't put any art in it for four years. I. Well, let's, let's change that. Take a look. Yeah. and my whole thing is I'm not a salesperson. I don't have any training for sales or gallery world things. I'm completely self-taught and I'm really an artist when it comes down to it. Yeah. So my, my whole sales method is very passive. I'm if you love it, I'm happy for you. Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. I just want, to kind of make the process as seamless and easy for people to collect a piece of art and natural and natural process. Yeah. when, when something resonates with them. So I just transferred to a new art gallery software that lets me do tear sheets, instantaneously of any of my inventory. sort of auto format it. So, you know, you might be we're looking for something that's no bigger than 20 by 20 and no less than. 16 by 16 and it has to have blue in it. And I can basically have my system be okay, let's, see what we have in inventory. And then, if not, sometimes I can ask a specific artist if they have anything. So yeah. Nice. It's fun. I mean, literally every day, especially from the, in the beginning was a crash course. Yeah. it was pretty wild. And, I consider myself lucky and, I might, I might, not be crediting myself enough, but I consider myself very lucky for surviving two, two and a half years in sto Vermont as a business. Yeah. there's a lot of turnaround in Vermont. Yeah. and in sto definitely, where, you just see something pop up and in a less than a year it's gone. Yep. Yep. Any, so now you've owned this, the gallery just under three years. Three years, yeah. Any big surprises. in those three years? Well, yeah. I mean, the first summer we had major flooding in Vermont and a ton of water came in the basement, so that was a tough one. Yeah. we managed and, and fixed that up. did it damage one of the, it didn't damage any art was, was really, really nice. It was in one of the, the street side corner and it's where we keep all our cardboard boxes and shipping materials, so we had to just clean a whole bunch of stuff. And, big surprises though. I don't know. I mean, having to deal with the old owners of the place, that was kind of a challenge, at times. But, we've moved on from that. Yeah. And, we've, we've just been reinvesting. I mean, I wasn't paying myself anything in the beginning. It was enough to eat Yeah. And enough to live. And then it was just everything was going back into the gallery. Mm-hmm. which was, Fine with me. It was, an investment in myself, an investment in the gallery. I wish I owned the, the building. Right. Yeah, I was, I was curious about that. Yeah. but nevertheless, I mean, the first thing we did was renovate the bathroom, so that was pristine. And, and then we've done the floors. We've done the walls. We're about to do the lights and we're about to renovate the basement, fully so we can have a private viewing space down there. open exposed storage so that people can go down there and sit on a couch and be can I see that one, that one, that one, that one. Oh, nice. have a wall or two that we can show stuff and then drink wine, beer, and whatever. Mm-hmm. and I guess, I don't know, you're just rolling with it, it sounds you know. Yeah. Just, yeah. 'cause running a business, like you said, in STO is hard. So Do you have employees? Yeah, I have, I have one employee right now. Yep. so, and her's, Bonnie, Bonnie Timberman, she's amazing. She keeps the gallery open Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. Yeah. I have a little bit of free time on those days usually. I, I work pretty much seven days a week though. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. I mean, especially when we started, I don't, I don't think Alex or I took a day off for nine months. Yeah. I believe it, it was constant. I was pulling 16 hour days consecutively for weeks at a time. Yeah. and I think, seeing, taking over from an operation that was working enough for them, we had to learn what was actually, smart of, that they were doing and what was not smarter they were doing. and we just have, I mean, completely transformed the operations of the business. Mm-hmm. and the amount of time I was dumping into just different tasks at the beginning, I don't even do any of that Yeah. Kind of thing anymore. So it's I, I don't have to stay there late, almost ever. Yeah. I mean, the latest I've ever been there was 3:00 AM literally just losing my mind. Yeah. I guess it was, October, 2024. I think I had slept eight hours in four days. And when I went home that night, I think I left at 2:00 AM 'cause it's people come in, they want, get mockups of work on their walls at home. So then they send me something and I have to do that, at night, send them PDFs of artwork. and I do a lot of that after hours. Yep. So, when I, when I go home, I work, I, I do a lot of the computer work for Right. Five, six hours usually. Right, right. and it can be a lot, so. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm sure you work with some people that probably. It take months and months to pick something and then just like you said, someone else will just walk in. I'll take that. Yeah. Yeah. In, in both ways. I like both instances. I, I think it's, if they love it, at the end of the day, that's the most important thing. So I do, consulting with, with folks that, I'll bring half a dozen pieces up to their house, whether it's here in STO or Waterbury or, Woodstock even. I, I drive all over New England. I I did a home trial in Boston the other day 'cause I was delivering work, down there. So I just brought a piece with me for, some clients to see, and they ended up taking it. You could've picked up a bunch of fish. Yeah. For, and you, and you changed the name of the guy? I did. Was, was that immediate or did that just, when did that happen in the process? Yeah, so that was about a year in. Mm-hmm. a year in maybe a little over a. And, I think that was really, really important. Mm-hmm. for me to take on, to have the gallery take on the identity that I wanted it to. Yeah. And that's front four? front four gallery. Yep. Very cool. Yeah. So I've been skiing Attos Yeah. Since I was, I think we know what that's all about. yep. I, I've been skiing up there for my entire life. I've, family ties to the foundation of the mountain and Yeah. it's, just a really, really important part of my life. That's cool. and so when we were thinking about names, really front four was when we thought of it, it was just instantly. Yeah. yes, let's do that. It's got a great ring to it. Yeah. What is your favorite front four trail? I'd have to say goat. Okay. goat on a powder day. Yeah. Okay. and then lift line. Mm-hmm. I love bombing lift line. I, I think in my heyday I could get down lift line and. Yeah. Almost 60 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. slightly terrifying. Yeah. But exciting and awesome. Especially if you're one of the first people down, that's usually better. Yeah. So same with GOAT though. I probably saw you coming down lift, going up the lift, like, oh my God. Still, I mean, I had some fast runs still. I still go pretty, pretty dang fast. I'm actually, this winter, I'm waiting for some good conditions. I just got an action camera and I'm gonna do a little promotional video of me skiing down the front floor. Oh, sick. Nice. if you can ski down it faster than me, you can get a discount. Okay. Ah, and you probably won't be able to ski down faster than me. I might get that a shot star. Maybe Star. I know Star really well. Sweet. Nooks and crannies. Jack looks at me not a chance. Not a chance. Nooks and crannies, right? Well, should do some rapid fire. Yeah, let's some rapid fire. Kick it off, Mike. All right. Oil or watercolor oil. All right. In art classic STO or modern sto. Modern stone. Big statement piece or quiet corner piece, big statement piece. Abstract mountain or perfectly rendered Mansfield abstract mountain. I knew you were gonna say that. I knew that. Yeah. It's the feeling. Yeah, I could sense that. Absolutely. Dude. Black and white photography or color saturation. I love my black and white photos. Mm-hmm. I love black and white photos too. Yep. If I had to choose one forever, I'd go color. Yeah, I think. Okay. A perfect black and white photo though is pretty cool. Really cool. Absolutely. Yeah. I really like the fact that in color photography you can kind of, you can create monotone photos, you know, if it's just like two colors or like very, you know, yeah. unsaturated color, and so you can kind of like make a mock. mock black and white. Right. So that's why if I could only do one, I'd go cut for that. Yeah. Yeah. Iconic front four trail or unknown. Glad, I think front four trail. Yeah. Yeah. Lift line. Yeah, lift line. I love the head wall. National full sun. Well, we've got this picture. I really love it. We think it's at the top of the mountain, you know, but it's kind nice that you don't really know. Totally. Yeah. All right. Winter scenes or mud season? Honesty. Winter scenes winter season. Do you have any mud season pictures? I'm kind of surprised to hear that too. I bet there's that. Mud season's got something too, right? I, I like mud season, I think, for my photography style, that unusual, see not as picturesque stuff. Mm-hmm. I really enjoy it. I have a, I have a photo called peak limbo where not a single leaf on a tree, and it's just Pure stick season right after fall, but there's some frost right on the top of the mountain and yeah. I mean, I think it's beautiful, but it's not the peak foliage of frost. Right, right. Yeah. Yep. Most overused subject in Vermont. Art, barn. I was gonna say it's gotta be red's. yeah. Without a doubt. That makes or makes sense. The church steeple. Any church steeple. That's true. That one's a killer. Like cows. Cows, yeah. You know? Yeah, for sure. A maybe get a I for sure. But yeah, Barnes and church steeples. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The steeple gets, yeah. Some press. All right. One art trend, you secretly hope disappears. Oh boy. I guess I, I really don't like, this is kind of niche and whatever, but, there's something called pendulum paintings, and it's like you just like drill holes in the bottom of a bucket. And you hang the bucket by a string and you fill the bucket with paint and you just spin it over a canvas, kinda a social media Okay. viral thing. And a bunch of people do 'em. And, it's just like, yeah. Doesn't, doesn't do anything for me. Not your thing. No, not your thing. One artist you would want on your own walls. so there's, an artist that I've been discovering lately called Peter Haller, and I'd love to have one of his on my walls. Okay. He's a, unknown artist from Germany who's a Holocaust survivor. And, he actually lived in Morrisville. He came over, after the war and, and settled in Morrisville. And, his undiscovered collection of about 400 pieces has been in the attic, at the four corners. in Morrisville for the last, like 23 years. Oh, wow. so his work's really, really cool. It's like post-war abstract and no one knows about it. Pretty, it's all pretty much just, he just did it all on his own. Yeah. So he was a teacher at Johnson. Okay. And, it's incredible discovery. I mean, it's like non derivative. It's very much his own style that he developed. and he painted huge. The biggest piece is 19 feet wide. Wow. And there's like 25 pieces that are all in, like the 12 feet wide, kind of sizing. It's crazy. So what will happen? Are you involved in that to life? I'm managing the artistic estate. Okay. working with his son who lives in Richmond right now. so Peter's wife, Alexandra, noble or Alexandra Heller, she actually ran the. The little bookshop across from, black Diamond Barbecue. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah. So, that was theirs. They, they've been in Morrisville since 1968. he passed in 2002. And, they, the family knew he was an artist. He was actually the assistant art director at Johnson State for about 28 years. he started there. Yeah. They have a nice gallery there. 1968. Yeah. so he's the only, one of the only places he's ever shown his work is at that gallery. Wow. he worked at UVM actually before that. Mm-hmm. 1961 to 68. he was the romance language department, head. Wow. And, he's, he just was this witty, smart man who would go into the attic and paint for hours and hours and hours in his free time. What a cool discovery. Yeah. Right here in the backyard. Very cool. Sick. All right. That was fun. Good. Rapid fire around. So you brought this book, your family's got some. Unbelievably deep roots in ow. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about the, the history. Well, so, the story goes on my mom's side. my family goes all the way back to Seth Warner, who was the cousin of Ethan Allen. And so it's the foundation of the state. and I'm a direct descendant of him. and more closely my great-grandfather, Warren Warner. he, cut a lot of the trails up at Mansfield and SMUGs, with Charlie Lorde, I guess Mansfield, with Charlie Lorde. He actually was the head of, of cutting at SMUGs, for the Sterling Mountain side. So like, he named Rum Runner and some of those other trails hangman, I think. and it's very actually undocumented. There's only a couple places where he's mentioned, but, I showed you in the beginning, or before we started talking, I mean, he was a lifelong friend of Charlie Lorde. Mm-hmm. they'd go hunting together. They'd, hiking's a cool duck hunting picture in there. Yeah. That's Charlie Lord. Yeah. Pretty cool. There's a, there's another photo of them just when they're like old, old men and, it's pretty cool to see there's stuff from, you know, 1940 when they were cutting and all the way up until the eighties and nineties. Yep. Mm-hmm. but yeah, so he, Warren. he was the main guy telling Charlie which trees were allowed to be cut. He was working directly for the state of Vermont Forestry conservation, And, so he worked, side by side with Charlie while they were cutting and planting the, the trails. Oh. so that's pretty cool. I, I love being able to ski and be My great-grandfather had a, had a say in what was. What a piece of history creating all this. And then, generations forward after that. Your grandparents, parents, did they all stay local or, yeah, not, not fully, but, my grandmother, she, she was born in Morrisville and, grew up in Jeffersonville while, while he was cutting, SMUGs and then they moved all around. Mm-hmm. So they moved to OK Kimmo. 'cause he, he was the Charlie Lord of Oke, right? apparently he's the trail guy. and then they went to, gunstock, and cut. He, has his hands on a ton of the mountains around here. That's rad. and, but then, my grandmother, she graduated from high school. And became a server at the hotel at the mountain. so she would do, when they had the hotel at the top of the mountain. Mm-hmm. She was, wow. Pretty much up there. and she, she met her husband who was a immigrant from Austria, my grandfather. he was a chef and he came from, the central us. he was miserable. And the hotel manager for, who he was working for knew, I'm blanking on his name, but the, guy that owned the hotel at the time. And, and he was yeah, I guess we can take one more. chef. So, Tony got sent on the train to STO Vermont. Apparently it was a dud of a winter. And the day after he arrived, they got three feet of snow, which is pretty cool. And then I think it was within a month and a half. he and my grandmother, you know, had started floating and, and then, got together. Like good accent right there. Yeah. so yeah, cool story. They ended up, buying a little place together up in Sterling Valley and then, ultimately building, the Alpen Rose Motel, which was a small little mm-hmm. I think four room motel, that was operating in STO for decades up until a couple years ago. 'cause Pam was getting older and was a hassle. So, yeah, I mean I pretty much grew up at the Alvin Rose and then in Stowe, where my parents lived. And yeah, my parents, my mom grew up here, so she grew up at the Alvin Rose and was friends with all of the other. like Innkeepers and, and I mean, there's a lot of a crew Oh, yeah. Small, Austrian and, and European mm-hmm. buildings, you know, and, and you know, hotels here, Innsbrook Inn and all that. Yeah. Traps, Edelweiss traps. Yeah. So, you know, they, they were, very intertwined with the social scene of Stowe. And, then my mom went to Boston and, and she had met my dad actually when they were kids. And, they, my dad graduated from high school and I think it was three years older than my mom, but, graduated from high school and drove. Out east from Pennsylvania because they didn't think their West Valley van could make it to, Utah. So that's why, that's, that's why I'm, that's one way, that's why you're here. that's one way to pick a location. Yeah. That's awesome. So they turned left instead of, right? Yeah. And cool. basically he came and ski, bummed in Stowe and, had a little apartment where Salon Salon is right now. Mm-hmm. And, that's when they met. But, they were just in the social circles, of the young people in Stowe. And, then they both went out and my dad went to culinary school, a TN My mom went to, a, flight attendant school to become a, hospitality manager for hotels. Mm-hmm. So she worked at the Parker House in Boston for Yeah, a couple years. And then ultimately my dad moved to Boston to be the chef of a restaurant. Mm-hmm. And, a mutual friend. Told him that at n mor, at n Flory was working at the Parker House. And, so that's how, that's, he went in there and, and asked her on a date. And so, wow. Yeah. And then a couple, a couple years after they, got together and reconnected, they moved back to Stowe and, that's when they had my older brother and had me, and they have a, had a little house in Moscow. Yep. and then I, I just grew up here and went to high school here. went to, went to school with Emma. Yeah, yeah, my daughter. I, I lived in that house in Moscow. Really? I actually, my dad told me that today, Paul. Yeah. He's a good man. Both your parents are. Thank you. I I literally just put that connection. You just made the connection. Yeah. Yeah. I saw your dad a few days ago. That's so funny. That's really great. So, yeah, that's the house that I brought back to when I was born. Good, good people. Yeah. That's so cool. Awesome, man. Sweet. Yeah. That's cool. Well, you've got rich history. Yeah. You aren't kidding. I mean, phenomenal. Now that you're back in Stowe, I mean, we get people on, talk about affordability and all these big issues. Any, hope, hope for stone the next five to 10 years? I mean, I hope that we can maintain a, close knit community. I think, a there's people outside influences that want stone to become, the veil of the East, in terms of the magnitude of money here and the flamboyance of money here. I don't think that's necessarily a problem as long as we can maintain a really strong community. Yeah. and for me with the gallery, that's one of the things that I am trying to, sew into the fabric of my business where, I'm doing exhibitions that are open to the community, a place for, have it be a place where people can come and talk. not only, to about art, but with the artists themselves, like Eric Tobin and Jim and Craig who all have lived Vermont for decades and, have that experience, and can share about it. and then, they can take it home with them, sometimes, but, yeah. That's great. Yeah. I really, really want Stowe to just stay. a community oriented town. Yeah, that's great. I'd say you're playing a part in that, Jack. And, we asked all of our guests this one question. Okay. If STO did not exist. Yep. Where would you live? Sto? I don't know if somebody's already said that before, but the first time. yeah. I would live, I think I'd be a nomad. I don't know. I like, I don't know if it Chile, maybe. See that sounded like you had a good experie somewhere in nature. I feel like you need some nature. Yeah, definitely. Nature. I mean, maybe Colorado, but Yeah. if it, if it, if STO wasn't around, you know, maybe Waterbury. Yep. There you go. We, we get, we get that a lot. I get that a lot. I love it. but every time I leave sto now, especially as an adult, I feel more and more grateful. Yeah, I like Vermont Stowe. I'm, I'm convinced it's the best place in the world. Shangla. Yeah. I, it's a playground. You can do any sport you want. You can really, you know, just go out in nature and enjoy that. and I, I feel so grateful for that. So I, I, great place, great place when you leave and you come home and you're just as happy if you're happier. Right. Yeah. It's always a good sign. Exactly. Awesome. Thank you so much, Jack. Thanks Jack. That was awesome. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. Hope you enjoyed that episode of the Octagon Podcast. Remember to like us on Instagram and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. See you next time.